Is Power BI Desktop a Dev Tool? – Ep. 376

Mike and Tommy debate whether Power BI Desktop should be treated like a true development tool or more like a report authoring environment. They break down what “developer workflow” actually means for Power BI teams—source control, testing, deployment, and repeatability.

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Main Discussion: Is Power BI Desktop a “Dev Tool”?

The core question of this episode is less about labels and more about workflow maturity: if Power BI Desktop is your primary place to build semantic models and reports, does it deserve the same guardrails and process that teams apply to code?

What makes something a dev tool?

Mike and Tommy frame “dev tool” around a few fundamentals:

• Repeatability: Can you reliably recreate the output from inputs (data + definitions) without manual clicking and mystery steps?
• Versioning: Can you diff changes and understand what actually changed?
• Testing & validation: Do you have a way to catch breaking changes before they hit users?
• Deployment: Can you promote changes through environments (dev → test → prod) with confidence?

Power BI Desktop can support parts of this, but the friction usually shows up when teams treat .pbix as an opaque binary artifact instead of a set of definable “source” components.

Desktop as an authoring environment (and why that matters)

Even if you call it a dev tool, Power BI Desktop is also a creative authoring surface—part IDE, part design studio. That blend is why teams often struggle to apply traditional software engineering practices:

• Report layout and visuals are inherently harder to diff than code.
• Model changes can be easy to make, but hard to review without conventions.
• Many “it works on my machine” issues come from local Desktop settings, gateway quirks, or environment-specific assumptions.

The takeaway: calling Desktop a dev tool doesn’t automatically fix the process—you need a workflow that matches what Desktop actually produces.

Source control: the turning point

A big part of the discussion centers on source control readiness:

• If your team can represent model/report changes as text (where possible), review becomes far more practical.
• If you can’t diff changes, you tend to rely on “trust” and manual QA, which doesn’t scale.
• The more people touching the same assets, the more you need conventions to avoid accidental regressions.

This is where teams typically start asking: should we invest in decomposed formats, modeling conventions, and deployment pipelines—or accept that we’re essentially doing “manual development” inside Desktop?

Deployment and ownership

Mike and Tommy also get into the human side: when Power BI assets become critical, ownership and promotion paths matter.

• Who approves changes?
• Who owns the semantic model versus the report?
• What’s the rollback plan?
• How do you keep production stable while still letting authors move fast?

The meta-point: whether or not you call Power BI Desktop a dev tool, your organization will eventually be forced to answer these questions as adoption grows.

Looking Forward

As Power BI and Fabric workflows keep moving toward more structured development patterns (more programmatic model definitions, better tooling, and clearer promotion paths), teams will benefit from treating their BI assets with “software seriousness.” If you’re feeling the pain today, start small: define conventions, get your artifacts into version control where possible, and build a lightweight release process before the chaos forces it on you.

Episode Transcript

0:18 you [Music] good morning and welcome back to the explicit measures podcast with Tommy Seth and Mike good morning everyone Happy Happy Thanksgiving Happy Thanksgiving I think I think it’s turkey day today happy day why are we so confused Mike well this is

0:49 why are we so confused Mike well this is a recorded episode people who are traveling and doing things around holidays and things build has recently happened so we recorded some of those episodes and now it’s the week of Thanksgiving and we’re recording these episodes as well we’re recording this a bit early so we don’t know what happened at ignite and I’m hoping ignite you guys were just at ignite sorry yeah ignite Tommy and I were at ignite and we had a great time we had a great time it was super fun except for that one time Tommy did that thing that was very dangerous I was GNA say that one time that you did that thing I was gonna

1:24 say I was talking about future events that’s funny all right that being said this episode’s going to be kind said this episode’s going to be a short quick episode we’re just of a short quick episode we’re just getting a quick recording here for this one but let’s just jump right into our main topic we can start discussing we’ve been doing this little minseries around like citizen developer tools things that the business gets and can build things with we just our last episode was around a bit more conversation around data Marts and the citizen developer this one we’re thinking will be a little bit more around let’s cater towards desktop is desktop changing from what it used to be to what it is becoming with the

1:55 to what it is becoming with the recent announcements that Microsoft has been producing around some major changes around desktop and even the file formats of like powerbi and files that we we typically work with things are becoming very different I think in this world so let’s jump in there Tommy Tommy give us a couple like maybe starting point thoughts or questions here and then we’ll take it from there for a little bit yeah and I think one big thing I’m realizing as we get more mailbag questions and we hear back from a lot of users is I think we’re underestimating citizen developers I

2:27 underestimating citizen developers I think we have an assumption I know I do where it’s like well you can just turn everything on you probably are using all the new features that come out as soon as they come out but a lot of people have limitations whether it’s the team whether it’s the organization they’re in it’s tenant level settings that are turned on or off a lot I would say a majority of people are probably not at the Forefront of a lot of the products features and tools and skill sets that are available to them so with that being

2:57 are available to them so with that being said I think there’s a lot of not just the bi team and the centralized team which is a core for a lot of us but there a lot of people going look I do powerbi a lot but I don’t get the abilities and all the feature set so I have to hack things together I have to be a little creative in my Solutions and I think that’s a great place for what we’ll call that citizen developer developer set I’m not sure how that’s I’m not sure that’s how we Define or how Microsoft would Define the citizen developer I think your your definition is a little

3:27 think your your definition is a little different than what I’ve I feel like I’ve heard in the past let me just give you what I’ve heard and and maybe Seth you can maybe weigh in here about what you think as a citizen developer as well I think that what they’re trying to communicate around citizen developer is anyone anywhere in the organization can pick up powerbi and utilize it it’s a it’s the it’s the I’m going to say this term I use it a lot democratizing data right it’s going it’s making data and Report building a commodity right Excel isn’t a commodity in your organization if everyone doesn’t have Excel no one’s productive right

3:59 have Excel no one’s productive right it’s one of those mentalities they want to get to and I think they’re trying to do the same thing for bringing data together and merging it and if you’re if you imagine in my mind citizen developers are already doing this in Excel today they’re grabbing different data sources they’re exporting them they’re shaping them they’re moving the data around all we’re getting all all we’ve been given recently has been a powerbi tool or a tool that works well with power query and other things easily manipulating that data shaping it designing it and then putting it in a

4:30 it designing it and then putting it in a place where we can reuse it I think that’s what they’re trying to go for I don’t think it really matters about like whether or not you’re using the latest features or not I think that’s what they’re going for okay so you disagree with the description of what a citizen developer is is because what is I think it’s more General than what Tommy gave I think I think a citizen developers Anyone who puts their hands on desktop or Excel is what I would maybe maybe it’s a better way of quan I’m trying sorry I’m literally thinking out loud I’m unpacking the idea as we go here I think I just disagree with the latest features

5:00 I just disagree with the latest features of things sure I think anything citizen developer you’re still a citizen developer if you’re ripping power query from SharePoint and doing stuff and making things happen own yeah I would not call you a citizen developer for doing that but have have we you doing that but have have we are we shifting a little bit more know are we shifting a little bit more now like hey instead of having just SharePoint and flat files be your source of data well now it could be a SQL Server well now you can give citizen developers more access to bigger tools see but this is where I started agreeing

5:28 see but this is where I started agreeing with Tommy okay I think you’re getting if you’re getting hung up on like turn on all the features right the other part of that was there are certain limitations as far as like not having access to some of the Enterprise is features that you’re talking about not going to disag not going to disagree so I I guess where I where I go is don’t I I think developer doesn’t give a rip about infrastructure no or Dev test prod it’s just everything needs to work so a

5:59 it’s just everything needs to work so a lot of a lot of our conversations a lot of what fabric offers I think is moves towards more scalable and larger implementations and that isn’t always but could could be part of a citizen developer but I would argue like what is the difference between or what is there a goal difference between a citizen developer and a bi professional or somebody team yeah and I’ll be honest I think I have a little biased to the definition because the the term citizen

6:30 definition because the the term citizen developer doesn’t come from the data platform it actually comes from the business application platform with Microsoft they consider anyone who uses canvas apps or power automate the citizen developer that’s actually where the terminology seriously yeah which I don’t I’m not really a big fan of that terminology now if you’re doing the modeling and you’re doing the actual the more of the you can actually do Dev and vs code with power apps that to them is a developer but if I’m just building a canvas app I’m a citizen developer which I don’t agree with that terminology I

7:00 I don’t agree with that terminology I don’t like that terminology but that’s yeah our yeah our Minecraft but I’m the Villager now I’m the Viller so I that’s where the bias is com from so it’s a it’s someone who there’s standard tooling available to them but it’s just that it’s just the standard thing where people have to make and mash a lot of things together it but but okay so yeah just because somebody is using the tool

7:30 just because somebody is using the tool set that they are doesn’t mean that they always have to stick there I think there’s a mix of folks that can’t move on like we talked about previously where it’s like hey you’re you’re all these features are turned off I have no other option yeah versus why I brought up like I think the goal right like the goals of what I would term a citizen business intelligence developer are to get to the data fast like the insights faster it’s all about like okay somebody sent me this spreadsheet I have to go comb

8:00 this spreadsheet I have to go comb through it I have to do the analysis and I have to give out this answer quickly it’s not about doing that in a scalable way where somebody else can use my output what I’m saying I’m 100% that’s if we were to do the definition today what you just said said Seth is exactly where I would I would place my my same my same definition so because and maybe and maybe this is where it goes into the what what you pointed out earlier with features mhm

8:31 features mhm like we talk about them a lot because they’re they’ll enhance Solutions but if they’ve already found like how many people are using powerbi up to the point where it’s meeting all of their needs and they don’t go be beyond that nor do they care right because that’s that’s what like you’re doing your analysis you’re producing what you need to produce and that’s it yeah I used to get so frustrated my my first two companies because something would be out or available but I didn’t didn’t have the permissions to do it like it was

9:01 the permissions to do it like it was like an API call to Power app or some things things with be you would be the person we’re talking to all the time then exactly yeah because you’re learning about all the new things that we I couldn’t do it I couldn’t use it I would have to buy my own tenant to do so like I I I wanted to but I I had no ability to do so I would have to start my own company which I did but beforehand you’re just at the whims of your it team I I I feel like calling someone a

9:31 I I I feel like calling someone a citizen developer based on the access they have doesn’t do it justice and maybe I’m having a TR maybe where I’m I’m having a heartburn here is I think actually there’s different levels of people create like let’s call them content creators or or creators of content or data content that’s inside your your organization I don’t really like how Microsoft has design designed the personas that are inside the powerb ecosystem I think I take a different approach and maybe what maybe my different approach of the different person that we’re talking about aligns

10:01 person that we’re talking about aligns better with what a what I would call a citizen developer so let me just throw some stuff out yeah a citizen developer is not someone who is a report consumer a report consumer just looks at reports that someone else has built period they get them from an app they get them from a workspace that’s what they’re doing a report Builder is someone who has used a model that someone else may have built or does some lightweight modeling on their own and builds their own report for whatever they need their report to be doing that could be like in a team or a department level person right then I have what I would call the data modeler

10:33 have what I would call the data modeler and I’m going to blend the data modeler and data engineer into the same role I know those are traditionally two different roles but I think the skills of the data modeler person building semantic models making the star schema getting the data in making sure it’s correct those are very similar to what I would call a data engineer so I’m going to call data engineer and data modeler the same person just because I feel like a lot of the skills are transferable and the same thing then there’s the

10:57 the same thing then there’s the data scientist then there’s someone maybe like the PM or the management team that’s like release manager and they’re working on okay we have things that and some organizations have it not every organization needs a release manager but that’s someone who’s in control of who’s building what in Dev and making sure that the things the artifacts move between Dev test and prod into the various parts of the organization I think these roles fit in all scenarios whether you’re talking about just pure powerbi whether you’re talking about

11:28 powerbi whether you’re talking about fabric and using data warehousing and Flake houses and all the stuff in the back end I think these roles fit more aligned to my my analogy I would then say part of that data modeler person could be a citizen developer the report Builder could be a citizen developer but I would argue when we have people hard pushing into Data engineering and data science roles those are not citizen developers they’re skilled in that area and we’re not bringing someone or people that maybe have come from the business

11:59 that maybe have come from the business into that space so that’s maybe it’s it’s it’s probably like a a spectrum that we’re talking about here and that’s how I see it I don’t think I agree with any of that really no you’re just okay so what do you don’t go ahead like see because that’s still start that’s still part of the structured play that that the arena we playing all the time where you would assume those roles and responsibilities are part of developing something what what I would whether

12:29 something what what I would whether if they’re there or not I think they’re there regardless well could it may be one person could could somebody like like your to your point could a data engineer somebody who’s always playing in the data be considered a citizen developer because they’re using parts of powerbi right well even then they know a lot more than I would developer I would say like a citizen developer to me would be somebody that comes from the business

13:00 be somebody that comes from the business is is an old Mike Carlo that only worked in Excel all the time data you you analyze like the person analyzes data on a daily basis they’re all up in the guts of excel sometimes with calculations and like the 900 tabs Etc like these were the people that never knew power query existed right because it was infrastructure it was scalable it was like a proc a process these are the people that are like doing the manual thing all the time and then find powerbi nothing powerquery like and and

13:32 powerbi nothing powerquery like and and hope so so you’ve hopefully graduated to powerquery the desktop right like that experience I can create my calculations now not just in Excel I can share this report out to a wider audience and I can automate some things and why am I doing all this because I found that there’s a ton of value in the automation of this yes I can create the Transformations once and get repeatable expected outcomes and I can share with a wider AUD audence the reason I did all this was because I there I’m on the hook for

14:04 was because I there I’m on the hook for reports or I’m on the hook for answers Adent analysis it’s all the meaning behind data right it’s it’s the it’s the value of the answer that is important to the citizen developer they’re just in these tools because they they recognize that they can do what they need to do in terms of analysis and getting the answer faster faster and and that’s where I’m going to lean to because I don’t I’m gonna argue quick okay you just subscribed for me the

14:35 okay you just subscribed for me the citizen developer which I would also argue is that data modeler and that report Builder Persona that is that is the person and that’s what I’m we’re saying the same thing yeah okay so because I don’t think the first time you open a data flow your title changes I think we’re saying the same stuff okay I think we’re saying the same thing so yeah yeah and one thing I just want to quickly add to that I think I like your points though yeah I I agree the citizen developer is not necessarily A distinct from those right they’s someone who they’re not on the Streamline they’re local radio station they’re not National they’re doing solutions for a

15:05 National they’re doing solutions for a team right no but but serious they’re be fans is what it is they’re Bear yeah right but they’re not a Packers fan local they’re not streamlined but they they could use the same tools all Packers fans are professional developers high quality dude I know expert all the Bears fans are like barely a citizen developer barely a citizen developer Bears fan in this equivalent is trying to write power query in the Dax formula bar don’t even get me start about Yankee fans they’re probably like even lower on the all

15:36 probably like even lower on the all right they’re Tableau lovers they’re Tableau Tableau lovers we can end this podcast right now this is it guys this is my last thank you all we’ve appreciated it we’ve done 100 376 episodes there is no more episodes Tommy is outon it’s it he’s done he’s you’ve pressed the Yankee button we’re done here yeah it’s too soon it’s still I’m still there’s still some mornings there’s still pain there’s still heart there Tommy are you going to therapy yet is is

16:06 Tommy are you going to therapy yet is is therapy happened started has that begun I’m talking to my son and he’s four I’m talking to my son so you’re going to bring the scars to your children I see how this works you’re bringing the generational the world Ser I’m I’m showing him Derek Jeter and Derek Jeter hasn’t played for 15 years I’m like this is the guy don’t watch out with these guys anyways we’re getting started we’re

16:25 guys anyways we’re getting started we’re getting started but okay so I think we’re on the same page citizen developer can cross all the skill sets yes and touch a lot of those tools but again they’re not part of the Streamline so let’s talk about the tool we were going to talk about today which was like desktop thought we’re gonna say that for next week but that’s okay oh I thought we were doing that today today okay so I think we did citizen developer stuff I think we did citizen developer stuff this makes sense but now we’re like mean this makes sense but now we’re like okay so what is the tool of the citizen developer and what does how does desktop fit into that I guess is what I was going to maybe lead so I think we defined very clearly what a citizen

16:55 defined very clearly what a citizen developer is yeah let’s now step into what do desktop mean for that developer so I know where you stand Mike and and I’m I’m seeing your point a lot more than I did before because well Mike first hates desktop we know that since I don’t hate it I don’t hate it has place in the cloud and then it happened there’s limitations I’ll just say there’s limitations in desktop that doesn’t give me like what I feel from a developer standpoint it doesn’t give me what I really want to do and and it’s

17:25 what I really want to do and and it’s becoming much easier to do things in desktop so I’m also of the of of the opinion that Microsoft can make changes to the website faster than they can make changes to the desktop you’re going to probably get multiple changes to the the website improvements fixes bug fixes they’re continually pushing out new things as opposed to desktop but gets like two maybe three releases a month do you write your reports in the service now I write them in my theme generator tool because they’re so much faster faster there so I have to keep rolling my eyes

17:57 there so I have to keep rolling my eyes keep rolling Tommy keeps roll take a little for this one well so but seriously though where if you are building a report for a client are you building the model and then going straight to the service I don’t think so I’m be honest less and less am I going to desktop let me just say that so I’m still using desktop for things that I need but the service has what I need more of in like the Lakehouse and the tables that I need so I’m doing more let let me see I’m starting my my workflow pattern is I’m doing more in the lakeh house I’m doing more with notebooks I’m

18:27 house I’m doing more with notebooks I’m doing I’ve I’ve walked away from Power query yeah desktop doesn’t get me power query or doesn’t get me notebooks so I don’t have that there for one so that so all of my data engineering exercises are no longer in desktop and I’m building direct Lake tables and I’m going directly from direct Lake tables into a semantic model which I start in the service so already I’ve taken out a good part of the data engineering work and just do it in the service that’s on window number one window number two is I’m building a couple simple measures and now I’m using Dax query view in the

18:57 and now I’m using Dax query view in the service to say co-pilot make me some measures or turn all of my number column bye bye mik I don’t think Microsoft liked at all his comment they reached into the stream and were just like beep so for those Mike is no longer here for those of you watching oh good I don’t know if we’re live still because Mike is in control of the stream so that was mic

19:27 control of the stream so that was mic said you have a problem and just said stop so it came back I think at least we kept going yeah we were is still going okay going yeah sorry I I kept talking and then and then Mike says he hates the service and he says he’s only the desktop we said Microsoft turned you off off apparent we actually did that’s funny not care for that comment sorry I didn’t I think I’ll try and pick up the last part of the thought here the last thought was now that I can make the tables and get the semantic model made in the service I’m now using Dax quer

19:57 in the service I’m now using Dax quer view in the service and I believe it was announced timle editor is also coming to desktop so that’ll be something that’s coming out I imagine that will also come into the service eventually at some point so it’ll match there one more reason to not have to edit the model in the local machine I can do all the definition editing in the service so the last part of this whole thing is I need to build reports and I will also argue many of my reports have become much simpler I’m doing less bookmarking I’m doing a lot of I’m doing a lot less

20:27 doing a lot of I’m doing a lot less things with it so I’m using now other third party tools to help me get like a nice looking report done backgrounds images theme files it’s faster to not do those you can’t do those in desktop anyways you can’t build a theme file on desktop it just doesn’t work well you can technically I don’t know how you do it easily not to the levels that you can in other tools and that’s fair but here so so so Mike do you touch the desktop at all I do I still do what percent what percentage of time that’s a great question

20:58 that’s a great question I would probably say about 40% of the time maybe 30% now it’s been slowly it used to be like 70 80% and now it’s slowly been working further and further back I power ask me how many I touch power cury 10% of the time now I’m never touching I haven’t I haven’t for a long time but that that’s because to your point you’re doing a lot more of your data engineering behind the scenes well so I would I would go it it is and and that’s why I’m making the point of if there is somebody who would want to walk

21:28 there is somebody who would want to walk away from the desktop as fast as possible and is all in on fabric right because you’re building your ecosystem out you’re already in that platform correct it makes a ton of sense to just continue on and build everything in that platform rather than go back to a local tool so if cutting edges Mike and he’s at at 30% right I think that is one scenario you could get to a point where you’re almost desktop free yes almost

21:56 almost desktop free yes almost yes but it’s important I think to also say like that’s for an all in all in on fabric all in on powerbi totally agree with you there yes where I think desktop still does make sense well obviously it still makes sense in your in your Realms too but yeah yeah where you’re not you’re not you’re using different platforms you’re still you different platforms you’re still powerbi is still the the know powerbi is still the the encompasses the connection the model the report that you’re publishing all the things and I I I still agree and

22:27 things and I I I still agree and especially in you’ll find as you get into more Central bi teams Etc that a lot of the ETL won’t be in those reports anymore you’re just you’re literally just connecting to your backend fa and dimensions pulling them in and connecting them so so the only thing is that you’re enhancing in the desktop versus what you’re doing is more of that is the model the model stuff under the covers which would be you covers which would be the you’re in the desktop know the you’re in the desktop you deploy the model right and then you

22:58 you deploy the model right and then you create another file that is the reports and then you’re building thin reports on that so you’re managing the model more in the desktop experience than you which is managing in that ecosystem I think and everything you just said I feel like leans towards the citizen developer more even even though hold on I would I would argue go ahead yeah powerbi desktop has all the developer features now we know that the files timle PB however and you can live that I want to point out you can Al live

23:28 that I want to point out you can Al live edit models in the service with desktop so that’s a live so now you’re now you’re not even editing on local computers you’re actually editing the model in the service with your desktop which is awesome it’s awesome dude but that being said the citizen developer we made some assumptions they’re using some of the same tools but they don’t have they probably don’t have a lake house or or a database that they’re able to access and they’re going to manage so power query is probably going to be their most utilized tool could be I remember the days of being that mid

23:59 remember the days of being that mid citizen developer and they have to put together data where they don’t have access to actually push data too Mike I’m leaning to you when it comes to a lot of my reusable data I’m pushing I’m not using power querer as much I’m pushing the fabric I’m pushing the lake housee I’m utilizing that more and more than ever and I love it but it’s a great experience I’m not a czen developer this might I would agree with you I would agree 100% agree with you yeah and I would say I honestly I would think power query is probably the most used tool of

24:30 query is probably the most used tool of a syst 100% yes every business user we talk to is when we come to fabric they’re like where’s my power query I’m like what it’s had some challenges it’s it’s got some family issues going on right now I would recommend we’d like maybe let’s let’s let’s go talk to a notebook families and we’re going to introduce you to a new tool that I think you’re going to love so ah dude you I I I I every time we bring this up a citizen developer is not going to go from Power query to notebook learning a new language you’d be

25:01 learning a new language you’d be surprised you’d be surprised how how fast I’m converting people these days it’s not it’s not that large of a jump and now that I’m showing I actually just did a class on data Wrangler and data Wrangler was really slick it does a lot of things that power query does and it helps out when you don’t know how to write code it helps out a lot there I would argue that so maybe you’re right Tommy maybe notebooks isn’t the best place for a citizen developer but I guarantee you if those citizen developers are writing complex formulas

25:31 developers are writing complex formulas or VBA and Excel sheets and and again I think there’s a lot of people that they’re doing those things there’s a lot of people really comfortable in like that type of space I don’t think it’s a very large jump to go from that into notebooks because they’re easy to understand they’re easy to get through but you need to learn again it’s like learning a handful of functions the same way you did in Excel and the functions work well and it’s pretty smooth moving forward but again is a fabric Thing sorry go ahead there there is a point to that though because

26:02 there is a point to that though because if you think about folks that are heavy Excel users they’re they are building the datab the code to do this stuff right and what power what what what happens to power you just gave them an interface they would still have to learn M yeah and they slowly do anyway to do the most advanced stuff you absolutely to get into the advanced editor right so at the same time it’s like is it that far of a stretch to say hey okay here’s here’s the interface in a notebook you you now

26:34 the interface in a notebook you you now have infinite capability as opposed to guard rails or things you can and can’t do in power query yep right in terms of transforms like here’s the library of functions you can go look at here’s a co-pilot that helps you write the go like yeah co-pilots Lo removing friction here I think that’s another great win if you’re using the get if you if you spend a lot of money you can use co-pilot so yeah yeah that’s another but if imagine this though like so notebooks are easy

27:04 this though like so notebooks are easy to understand they’re very cell based block information it’s it I think it fits very well with the Excel mindset hey I’m going to do some transformations of something I’m going to spit out a read t a table I need to see I can see the data as I’m building it I think that’s very clear it feels very power cury to me in some level yes it’s a little bit different you’re writing a

27:22 little bit different you’re writing a bit more code a little bit more syntax issues there but is it that far away from writing Excel functions I don’t think so is it that far away from using power query and then seeing the formula bar people edit the formula bar now like they every every Power query I’ve ever seen everyone has the formula bar up guarantee you that’s not makes it advance and I’m I’m not trying to say that if you just use some code you’re that you can easily appr python I love the notebook experience I am I totally sold on it but that being said I’m gonna I think we use CH Chuck

27:52 I’m gonna I think we use CH Chuck Sterling who said this that 90% of what you need to accomplish in power query can be done with the user interface that Gil yeah because he he was talking about like hey if you need to do like 80 to 80% of your work can always be done with just like just the UI it’s the last 20 or 10% that’s like okay if you want to do Advanced things like get a token make an API call like those things are just clunky it just doesn’t work well is somebody is a citizen developer going to find their way to that on their own

28:22 find their way to that on their own without a mik Carlo no they’re not listen to the explicit measures podcast they’re going to hear and Mike like this is a great idea we should do this continue this I loving this but like and I’ll argue too if you’re doing VB and you’re doing advanced stuff you’re probably spending more time you probably know some other languages too so python you’re right it’s probably not a big jump at that point but to the definition that we have outlined here today of a citizen developer again who is not spending all of their time in the

28:52 is not spending all of their time in the tooling and that’s not their main job they’re again they’re local let’s go back to desktop too here where again power quer is probably their number one friend The Notebook maybe they would love that experience but probably not available to them powerbi desktop for Life who that sounds like a t-shirt right there yeah powerbi desktop’s not going powerbi desktop’s not going anywhere it it is it is the pref I would say the preferred tool and the tool that

29:23 say the preferred tool and the tool that you’ve you’ve brought a whole lot of people on to yeah and until that experience has the clarity and parity in the service right I I don’t think you’re going to get a mass migration into into it I think it may you potentially could get there faster if you’re organization’s adopting fabric right starting to utilize a lot more of those tools which those opportunities are now on the horizon which I think is fantastic yeah but for the for the

29:54 fantastic yeah but for the for the populace the larger percent of citizen developers they’re all in desktop and and I think that’s where they’re going to stay still for quite a while yeah let’s wrap up with some final thoughts here so my final thought is desktop has gotten extremely bloated in size it is now a 500 megabyte downloadable file that has a bunch of stuff great there’s a lot of things there but if I go to a browser I have nothing to install nothing to load it’s always up to date so I take that for what you will I don’t know but I am

30:24 what you will I don’t know but I am enjoying the browser experience I do think I think my opinion is desktop is moving more towards developers if anything I’m seeing more features in desktop show up that are pure code Dax query View and timle editor so if nothing else you’re going to get more code in your face when you use desktop it’s it’s coming it’s happening so be be ready for it so I think they’re going to continue to push you more towards a citizen developer anyways regardless with desktop it for sure is a Dev tool in my opinion Tommy to you no I think that’s where our conversation is going to continue is powerbi De Dev tool and I

30:56 to continue is powerbi De Dev tool and I want to have that conversation personally because I I think we’re getting to a point Mike where we really are needing to have this conversation where I’m still doing training a ton when it comes to dashboard and day for people who when I ask them from 1 to 10 where you’re at they say 0. five but we’re learning powerbi desktop and there’s still a reason for that so I I I want to have that conversation but I loved where we went today so any other final thoughts you’d add in there or things you GNA tell me WR for Life desktop for life

31:28 WR for Life desktop for life it where I ended where’s a little heart symbol a little okay so for those online do a little heart heart for desktop heart for desktop I don’t think I could do that I need to see if my son’s alive actually so he’s watching TV he’s good it’s all right thank you very much we appreciate your time today good conversation lots of disagreement which is good because that makes for great shows and great TV I like the arguments that’s good but thank you very much we really appreciate your ears and your time we know your time’s valuable sorry it was a little bit shorter today this was totally Michael’s fault I will take the blame for this one I screwed at the scheduling of things so I apologize

31:58 the scheduling of things so I apologize this is my fault while short you can blame me on Twitter later on I will totally ignore it don’t worry about it and then with that said if you liked this podcast if you like what we’re talking about here please share with somebody else either on social media or talk about it at work we would love you to continue this discussion in your organization and unpack it figure out how it works best for your company and your team Tommy where else can you find the podcast you can find us on Apple Spotify wherever your podcast make sure to subscribe and leave a rating it helps us out a ton share with a friends since we do this for free the have question idea or topic that you

32:29 have question idea or topic that you want us to talk about in future episode head over to powerbi tip podcast leave your name and a great question and finally join us live every Tuesday and Thursday A. M and join the conversation on all powerbi tip social media channels on most days and they’re not recorded it happen holidays are just a little off just beware it’s okay see you all next time

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