Power Query Paginated & Folders – Ep. 311
A fresh episode of Explicit Measures is here—let’s dig into the latest Power BI news and the team’s main discussion.
News & Announcements
- Get data with Power Query available in Power BI Report Builder (Preview) | Microsoft Power BI Blog | Microsoft Power BI — Connect to100+ data sources and create paginated reports.
- PowerBI.tips Podcast — Subscribe and listen to the Explicit Measures podcast episodes and related content.
- Power BI Theme Generator — Create and download Power BI report themes using the PowerBI.tips theme generator.
Main Discussion
This episode blends product updates with practical workflow topics: Power Query in paginated report builder, when paginated reports are the right tool, and why simple things like folder structure matter more than people think.
Key points from the conversation:
- Power Query in Report Builder: what it enables for paginated reports and how it changes the authoring experience.
- When to use paginated vs. interactive reports: detail-heavy exports, operational printing, and ‘pixel-perfect’ needs.
- Organizing work: folder patterns and consistent naming can dramatically reduce confusion as the number of reports/datasets grows.
- Maintainability: why “structure” is a feature—especially when multiple people are publishing content.
- Pragmatic adoption: start with one paginated use case where it clearly wins (printing/export) instead of trying to convert everything.
Looking Forward
If your org struggles with report sprawl, standardize folders + naming first—then layer in more advanced governance.
Episode Transcript
0:32 good morning and welcome back to the explicit measure podcast with Tommy Seth and Mike good morning everyone good morning and a happy Tuesday all right I know I don’t know what that was but I don’t know what all the all of the sudden I think I can do more with that know you drive and we’ll just be on for the ride yeah I feel like someone needs to take a clip of that and then do do what DJs do and then turn it into a DJ song with with Seth happy Tuesday and then
1:04 Seth happy Tuesday and then then it turns into microsopic night and build yeah well I see this little meme on YouTube where it says something like what do DJs even do and then someone takes the that little phrase of like and turns it into a big old mix of a an EDM song So something like that man my favorite song Happy Tuesday wow here we go we we could be number one on the charts for happy Tuesday party number one in songs cuz we’re going to hit it
1:34 one in songs cuz we’re going to hit it with the podcast Joe Brogan here we come aming years from now he’s not number one on the billboard but we are awesome so today’s main topic is we’re gonna go discuss a bit more around what has happened in our pagein report Builder your desktop version of pagein report Builder has gone through a modification there is a new power query
2:04 modification there is a new power query experience as you load data into your pagein report Builders which is great I love this I think this is really the good way a good way to go here it’s going to feel a lot more like what you experience in powerbi. com which is awesome so that being said we’ll talk about that today there’s also a new thing here that has appeared and this is in your tenant today currently it is folders in a workspace shocker so we’ve we we alluded about this or talked about this on earlier episodes so
2:34 talked about this on earlier episodes so we’re going to go a bit more what are the implications of this what does this mean are there anything that we need to consider does this change how we behave with deploying things across our Enterprise environment and will this will this help us where’s this going to fit I guess is where we’re trying trying to go at that topic I also want to point out like the folders thing is going to be interesting to me and Microsoft has also at their fabric conference announced a new thing called task flows which are amazing I think I
3:04 task flows which are amazing I think I really like what they’re doing with this very excited to see where this is going to go we’ve only seen a demo of this at the Microsoft fabric conference so there’s it’s nothing real yet there’s been no other demos the only way only place you can watch that is on the Microsoft YouTube channel or their blog post around the fabric conference so looks really interesting very excited to see where that comes from and maybe that and folders will be a good combination together to figure out what’s going on so I get the feeling when task flows does come out that’s like a that’s going to dominate a month of our
3:36 to dominate a month of our episodes I think whole month a whole month it’s only like Eight Episodes a lot we talk about nonsense for an hour anyway so true true very true the first time you ever both agreed with actually have real content for once yeah that’d be good do we have any nonsense to talk about today we do have some nonsense to talk about do some intros yeah I it’s we call Par and corner so parent corner with Tommy all right let’s hear it we have all songs for days
4:06 let’s hear it we have all songs for days this is also going to be on the music episode it’s gonna be parent Corner that’ll be our second release will be parent Corner that’s the second album yeah no second release we’re just doing singles right now we don’t have a full band yet we’re just doing singles okay I got I like that or EP yeah so yeah it’s the EP parent single EP you guys are veterans in the game your your kids are older slightly older than mine so you’ve been in it and so I’m getting introduced a lot my oldest is seven and so there’s a lot of these new things rather than treating her like the toddler or the kid
4:38 treating her like the toddler or the kid where homework now doing softball and stuff and I’m realizing that I can’t coach her I can’t coach her I’m not going to be able to it’s it’s because I literally we were throwing the ball she wasn’t listening to what I said like look you want to hit on run listen to me you want to strike out do whatever you want and I was like all right that’s not nice thing so that’s that’s when the Italian York comes out thing it’s up to you my friend thing but we were doing homework the other day and I could tell she was just being lazy with writing like the threes and
5:09 lazy with writing like the threes and everything and I was harder on her than I I think I should have been and I’m trying to I’m working on that balance between listen work hard do the right thing but you’re also seven and with you guys now if you remember that time how do you as a father especially like we’re supposed to be we’re we’re not supposed to be like oh it’s okay yeah like how do you balance that or how what are your guys’s strategies around the kids when they’re not working super hard
5:40 they’re not working super hard or they’re being a little lazy but they’re also children so you have to teach them too what how do you guys approach this this is a great question well first thing I’ll go to Power query and I would go into M and I would start writing some just kidding try to bring it back to Power Medallion approach I I take the Medallion approach with my children that’s right now they’re about in bronze you got to work them into silver so that’s you’re bronze today my friend yes you’re you’re working on some bronze today you got to work them into silver so I guess from
6:10 work them into silver so I guess from my so I’ll give you an example of something that happened recently in our family so I was at a restaurant we were eating at Chipotle and we were just eating our dinner and my son had to go clean the table so I cleaned our table and then I just so happened to notice there was a table next to me that was not clean and it just got bugged me it wasn’t a big deal I went over to the the drink station I got a little napkin wet and I I wiped not only our table but the table next to us to clean up and and leave 100% see you doing this but okay
6:40 leave 100% see you doing this but okay so I and my wife’s like why are you doing that you don’t leave that alone let’s go let’s get out of here like let’s go to the next place I’m like okay okay fine surprisingly we got an A a note from someone at school that had seen my son he was at his table everyone had made a mess on the table and at the end he realized the table was messy he went he got an extra napkin he took a little water from his water bottle made the napkin wet and he wiped down the table so classy and well the reason I bring this up is because I think something was
7:11 this up is because I think something was put into his mind by watching dad be a good example and doing something for someone else that he didn’t need to do I went over above and beyond I was in a restaurant I was that was a table I didn’t make messy I didn’t make I didn’t there wasn’t stuff on the table I went over and cleaned it just to be nice did my table area and then one extra table and then moved on I think he also took note of that and I think a lot of what we do especially when we’re talking about our kids it’s a lot about how we act yes we’re talking to them and we’re in the moment we’re teaching them something about baseball or softball
7:42 something about baseball or softball whatever that is but it’s also about these other moments that are they’re watching they’re observing what’s going on and I feel like for me if trying to be a person that I want someone to emulate is very hard to do so it’s challenging and one thing I’ll definitely say is I apologize a lot there’s been a lot of times I’ve gotten excited and I’ve said things that I shouldn’t have said and I yelled at people when I shouldn’t have yelled at them so 100% be good at apologizing and make sure your kids know that you’re not perfect and you’re going to need to
8:13 perfect and you’re going to need to apologize just like they’re going to need to apologize so when you get a little heated or extra over the top it’s good to to know you can apologize so that’s my those are my words of advice I don’t know if that’s good or not or anything I love I love that so so my take is essentially like you have a there’s an activity typically schoolwork she the child is bored right or just wants to get through something quickly because it’s just a task that is
8:44 quickly because it’s just a task that is is something that they don’t want to be doing or they want to get to something else and that irritates you because right like you have an irritation you want them to that they can do better I think where I landed is it all it’s it’s radically different the approach based on the personality of the child one my one child I can I can just say hey I I know you can do like
9:14 just say hey I I know you can do like much nicer we want we want good penmanship when we do these assignments and things like that so people can read I won’t have to say it again right they’ll they’ll just do it the other one wants to get through it as quickly as possible has good penmanship but in in the case that you outline is just ripping through it the tell thing doesn’t work right there there’s no resonance unless what I have found successful is giving
9:44 successful is giving examples for or or the reasons why we would want to do that so instead of yelling at them or like being the go do this which is where that child turns off immediately like just click switch like I’m not going to listen to you anymore or you’re yelling at me and that’s not really the intent obviously that you’re trying to portray right but the approach is where hey okay so
10:11 but the approach is where hey okay so I’m noticing like that you’re just ripping through this here’s some reasons why we don’t want to do that right like your teacher’s not going to be able to read it your you’re like the the grade may go down or whatever the ramification right or hey another one that works is I know you can do your threes a lot better and here’s the reasons why we do that if you if you rip through this assignment you’re going to do it again I’m going to make you do it again because I know that
10:42 make you do it again because I know that you can do these things and that’s why and then you give them motivation to to to take the time because they don’t want to do it again they’re ripping through it because they want to get it done but it all of the sudden it’s like well then I’m going to have to do it again and again so there’s no like in those cases where I’m less combative it works a lot more at that age range because I also have one at that age and in that in that Realm so that’s
11:12 in that in that Realm so that’s what I would say it’s it’s I’m happy to say EnV your powerbi MVPs you’re Al also Father no no no that’s definitely not true I don’t don’t put me on that pedestal there I I will I’ll say this one thing I one thing last thing I’ll say I’ll say is I have also had to learn that their are forming still a lot of times I look at them at seven and think they should be be adults yeah or they should be problem for me too right like you got to remember they’re little they don’t
11:42 remember they’re little they don’t understand they don’t have as nearly as much experience as you do and they’re not adults they haven’t been around for 30 40 years like us have been like so there’s there is a whole bunch of like they’re still trying to learn things like and I to continually remind myself they’re still growing they’re still learning their brain’s still not formed yet they’re still trying to figure out patterns and what works well and so they’ll settle into into into patterns and hopefully those patterns are things that you’ve set examples around and you do as as a parent but I’m trying to figure out how to bring
12:12 I’m trying to figure out how to bring this back to par but I can’t really I’m just I’ll say one more one last thing the apologizing thing I think is Big it’s funny that transition because I remember being a kid but my kid like I told her something and she went I think I went white with rage just heing the and it’s so funny with that transition but the I did apologize and I said look and so many words I said us pulas we’re not that smart but we’re gonna work harder than anybody okay so that’s what I expect basically but no I
12:44 that’s what I expect basically but no I I I love I love the advice love the advice here awesome good luck on that we’ll see what we we we’ll return to this conversation in a couple months we’ll see what happens awesome so let’s jump into some topics so main topic piece now so let’s jump into to what’s going on in page reports so there’s a blog post that’s been put out this is also going to be in the chat window as well so this is a blog post by nupa I think is how you would say it and she’s on the Microsoft product team and she has just announced the get data
13:15 and she has just announced the get data experience now is different we’re going to now have the new Power query experience of grabbing all your data from pageant and though to be clear this is the desktop version of the application called paginated report Piller this is not in the service this is only in desktop right so this is a and I think this is really neat because this I think this is the beginning of hey look we’ve got this great power crew experience online which is different than getting things in p a ports which has been traditionally different than
13:46 has been traditionally different than what you see in TBI desktop which is different than what you see in Excel all of them are different but the code is now there’s like four different versions of code and how it looks I think what’s Happening Here is you’re starting to see the the service starting to work its way into other tooling which is great because now it’s going to look like this unified simple same experience no matter where you go very excited about that initial thoughts Tommy yeah I was gonna say it’s interesting because if you were to say what is going to be one
14:16 you were to say what is going to be one of the major announcements in the first four months of 2024 I wasn’t going with desktop pageat report I I was I I would assume if anything paginated would be in the service but we already have the ability to connect to a live semantic model and passionated reports and we’ve talked about passionated quite a bit it’s it’s not our top 10 but it’s something that has come up frequently I think because there’s a lot of use cases and I’m going through this and I’m I’m reading the the article and I’m thinking about this
14:47 article and I’m thinking about this writing some notes and thinking what other Solutions or what does this change for hey now we can deliver X Y and Z and I’m trying to figure out still what X Y and Z is what’s going to be different that we weren’t able to provide before I’m I’m gonna lean on Seth one a little bit more here because Seth you’ve done a lot more pagein report building that’s that’s SSRS the old SSRS reskinned and now a bit more pagein report level when I had done page reports or built things in page report
15:18 reports or built things in page report Builder Builder or what the program is right now it was hard to get data into the system like it it just doesn’t it wasn’t as smooth or as seamless as what I would do in parb desktop you’re trying to connect to a connect to a source get a data table in right and I I don’t think are there any Transformations you can apply Seth there’s no you can’t transform the data in in SSRS you you literally have to do everything on a SQL Server The View already cleaned expose The View and then
15:48 already cleaned expose The View and then get it into you just connect the view powerbi we’ve already had the ability to connect to a semantic Model A agree but that means the the whole experience is like I guess what I’m thinking through is let’s imagine I have a an U a model and I need to drop a couple columns modify some things right there’s there’s potentially some additional Transformations you would maybe want to do before you get it into the page report piece so maybe there’s something there again to your point Tommy
16:19 there again to your point Tommy like right our our initial experience with page reports has always been do all the Transformations Upstream get the table exactly as you need it and so that your semantic model is already created done ready to go and you bring it forward to the report side so I think that is a bit different now you have so what it’s doing now is it’s bringing more of the power query capabilities closer to where you’re actually doing the design work for the page report and maybe maybe the reason here oh sorry Seth I didn’t mean to interrupt no go ahead maybe the reason so maybe the
16:49 ahead maybe the reason so maybe the reason here is if we think about what we can get data from now it’s a little different right before powerbi was only models and that you pulled from there to get it into page ports now we have lake house so does Lake we have all the rich data sources that power that that pageant reports has why not pull from tables now and so if you’re pulling from tables now I have nothing’s related maybe I need to Flat again my
17:19 maybe I need to Flat again my opinion here is you’re you’re flattening data down so you’re probably going to need to like bring together potentially multiple tables merge them join them together and now that’s there is semantic model that that lens not available yet not page tables not available yet lake houses lake house is not available okay dat flows are but what what is yeah data bricks oh so so what is we we’ve talked about report builder in the
17:49 we’ve talked about report builder in the past right and and when we I I guess posing somewhat of a question Andor not Lake are available sorry when when we talk about paginated reports where do they fit in the ecosystem of us developing reporting for the business it’s t typically in that data dump Arena right like we’ve talked like hey a business individual comes in and they’re like well they they don’t know how to articulate what they need or they haven’t done the analysis on the data to
18:21 haven’t done the analysis on the data to be able to drive towards a let’s build a powerbi report where I can visualize this aggregated data cuz I know that it’s going to be valuable for me so this is like the early phases typically is one use case and I think the most relevant because the secondary one would be somehow I created a powerbi report and somebody’s dumping out that curated data also possible but it’s it’s in the I’m gonna this is the super relevant cleaned
18:53 the super relevant cleaned aggregated data that I’ve filtered by using a powerbi report and there happens to be a table and I want to export it out I’m I’m not a big fan but I get it what what is really exciting about this and it stinks that this is a recorded episode because if Alex is in the chat like we’re we we would had some good dialogue but yeah yeah we probably would have been derailed completely is I’ve taken for granted in the past that the main
19:24 granted in the past that the main data source for paginated reports was SQL right so having that as a backend is great however not all my data is in there anymore so if what what this does is take me out of the hey I’ve always just if I need to do page put data in a SQL server and easily extracted it into this form it opens my eyes and go holy crap like that it’s so much more
19:56 holy crap like that it’s so much more useful because what is a very real business case all the time are individuals who know their business area or the data that they need and are cobbling it together themselves from this powerbi report and that Excel spreadsheet and this thing this gives me the opportunity to give them data I
20:19 the opportunity to give them data I think in a in a fashion that it’s not modeled yet right they need to do some analysis we need to like drive towards the discovery of like all the things we can do for them but it helps me easily consolidate all that data into a place and say yep here all you got to do is this and that’s what I think is really exciting about it I agree too and and I’m actually going so just to be clear what we talked about earlier is we
20:49 what we talked about earlier is we when I was looking at the get data experience yes lake houses are available it literally it’s everything that’s in in in normal Power query it’s all there lake houses are there you have have all the experiences data flows Legacy data flows Gen 2 anything you want to go access there’s now a lot of other data sources you can do table storage blob storage all the other things so all that stuff exists and is also there now as well so I’m very excited for that one and again I think this is a really neat move for Microsoft
21:20 this is a really neat move for Microsoft what I’m not quite sure will happen is yes I can bring data together and shape it but am I am I loading multiple tables what is that going to look like later on and so yes I I understand power query exists to get data into the system but what about the related tables so it’s not an it’s not an analysis Services model that doesn’t exist I don’t think that’s existing inside page reports so I’m not building a cube nor am I building like tables or relationships or measures so that’s still if we’re going to need things like that you’ll have to build
21:52 things like that you’ll have to build that somewhere else but this does expose a lot more tables of data to pageant reports across everything you would want what you just said knocked my camera literally off the digital spear so there you go so there’s a few things here though because I I I love the idea of the product of power query imp passionated it’s fun I’m I’m struggling with redundancy though and I think that’s the biggest thing yeah there’s some other cases with some more raw data to your point there’s the the tables but most of the time right I’m
22:23 tables but most of the time right I’m going to want some of my met my metrics I’m going to want usually what’s already in a sem antic model in in a pageat report it’s going to solve if I can usually create something in semantic model and people want that export of data we can then create a pated report off the semantic model I feel like for the most part you’re going to be probably grabbing from the same tables from the same information so that’s where I’m struggling yeah there’s a ton more sources here how much are
22:53 more sources here how much are you going to need but do but do you want but my my question is like I guess what I after is a ton more sources just makes this tool more valuable and again I’m not going to I’m not going to I’m not going to say you should only conduct to analysis Services models that I ideally probably I will right if mean I ideally probably I will right if I’m designing them that’s probably what I’m going to go after because I know it so well and know I need to build so but there has to be what this is trying to do is it’s trying to make pagey reports a a Swiss army knife more for
23:23 reports a a Swiss army knife more for all the different sources that are there so we may not have use cases specifically for a single source someone else may there may be something else there that’s like a weird Source I’m going right from Google analytics I just need a table of data that I can report and schedule a report on that so it could be a lot of these like we’re just trying to collect data get a table together and then just dump it out somewhere and that and that serves the business need so I think you’re taking a very I feel like what you’re saying Tommy is a very Central bi lens on your
23:54 Tommy is a very Central bi lens on your right I agree with you from a central bi thing that’s 100% there yeah but when you’re Microsoft looking at this going like we’re trying to service all users even the ones that are in like a business unit that have their own Works Space or doing their own thing and someone says H I just need to get this data out of this system every day schedule it email it even I don’t know Pat reports does the dynamic email lists now as well too so you can do Dynamic is that the one just in the service though or is that maybe that’s just in the service yeah but regardless like
24:25 the service yeah but regardless like my thought being is this would allow a team to say I’m going to go to this Source we’re not going to make sure everyone can connect to Google analytics instead someone will build the report here’s the page of the data that we care about and we’ll just have it available to you in the service go download it when you want or have it emailed to you every day done and maybe that’s that’s that’s probably a use case that exists but that doesn’t need to live in the central bi Team all the time what do you think Seth am I off base there or do you agree no I 100% agree with you I think Tommy was
24:55 agree with you I think Tommy was distracted with his video in that let me let me read itate okay got it it the two use cases that I see in here are the one Tommy that you defined which is I I have full semantic models somebody needs to do some data dumping I can connect to them dump it out and Page andat reports it’s been there fantastic yep works how much like I think you’re in this realm though of that’s the only thing you’re doing with all the data all the time and there’s this other realm
25:27 the time and there’s this other realm that I live in where a the vast majority of business users do not have access and you throw in don’t have the skills to even access the data that they would need to make the decisions that they do so what does that do in the business it forces them to Cobble together all of the random data sets whether they come from an Excel document a powerbi model right like multiple different places to come
25:57 like multiple different places to come up with an answer for or something and that’s Rife with error right so if I have systems of data that are curated but not modeled this is a perfect opportunity even for a central bi team to say hey we don’t have enough bandwidth right now to build out this full model for you and it’s not part of our stuff so in the meantime as part of this initiative and this I think Falls in line with that
26:27 this I think Falls in line with that episode where we talked about like how do you engage with the business like what are the things how do you get to the path towards serving their data needs sometimes that’s a data dump so they can do their own analysis eventually the hope is that we streamline things we automate to the point where they’re just looking at a few visuals because they can make their decisions faster but they’re not there yet so there’s so many use cases in this where I could say to the business user this is now an opportunity for us
26:59 user this is now an opportunity for us to automate a lot of the manual stuff you’re doing in just cobbling data together because here you can take here take here take here take here use power query to do all your Transformations and now you have a like a much better singular output even from yourself that’s a great starting point as opposed to you doing this manual step process every single time so I think to me it’s twofold way way earlier on this opens up
27:32 twofold way way earlier on this opens up the ability to consolidate and transform data you from multiple different systems in a in an extremely easy way if you’ve ever used page and SS before right yeah there there was none of that you were doing all of in store procedures or prior and just connecting so it’ll be interesting to see I think as I I think this just in preview but like there are limitations right now like how many data sources can we connect like it there’s a disconnect I think between the
28:03 there’s a disconnect I think between the documentation that’s saying the limitations is I can only have one data set but the video shows me I can have one data source and multiple data sets that come out of it I think so I got to test it out because obviously that extensibility of having multiple different data sources even come into the report I think would be beneficial but not necessary especially if I’m like hey I want I want to give you some data you otherwise don’t have access to I I understand where you’re pulling it from
28:34 understand where you’re pulling it from and it’s not fully modeled yet but let’s let’s keep the conversation going while serving the business need and that’s the other part of this business doesn’t have time to wait for your three weeks to put together a full-fledged model to put them in the frame of of mind to say yeah okay we can build the pagea report all the powerbi reports all the things that all tie together in a perfect ecosystem would come from that like there’s so much stuff that’s in transit that I
29:04 much stuff that’s in transit that I think this solves the visibility problem for that it is very exciting and I can understand why Alex has been pushing pushing about pushing at us about it as well even in some of the previous episodes we’ve had so let’s play on this a little because you mentioned the the one of the audience or the personas that would be creating the report or the Pion report you said the centralized bi instead of the model who’s the other persona or personas that’s going to be then utilizing this that previously I think it makes it much
29:36 that previously I think it makes it much more accessible for self-service okay like think about it before who was who was using paginated reports from a consumer point of view or from a use from a Bu from a build perspective that’s what you’re just asking about yeah it’s bi or it I’ve got to know what this data source connection is I’m connecting to a store procedure a view a table whatever like right it’s and it’s not easy it’s like the old school way of like yes this is the configuration dialogue box you have to know this here’s the permissions
30:06 have to know this here’s the permissions etc etc I think this also opens up the door for easier self-service of paginator reports and that’s that was my other point like in efficiency wise I could say hey do you have these things that you’re cobbling together and you’re manually like doing your matching and all this stuff and like this would be a
30:27 all this stuff and like this would be a way that they could just stick with the data right and then you’re moving people and culture forward because they start to understand automated processes are their friend they save time they’re still getting their raw output and then you start to have conversations around okay well what are the decisions you’re making off that oh well I pivot it and I roll this stuff up and I create these aggregations and man wouldn’t it be great if I could see this stuff over time and blah blah blah and you’re like hey we have a next step
30:59 and you’re like hey we have a next step for you right let’s start having a conversation around how do we take what you’ve built and what’s even more fantastic about this is right the data set powerc I can just pull that into a powerbi report or I I understand what Transformations they’re doing so I can leverage them when we build out the model so let me play Devil’s Advocate if you don’t mind sure sure sure and what is the product placement with pated that will ask the first question what does page do better than any other powerbi
31:31 page do better than any other powerbi product right now it’s placement in the large number of exports of data large number of exports of data it’s always on it’s it’s sweet spot there is like you want more than a million rows of data in a CSV file powerbi can’t do it I a CSV file powerbi can’t do it like reports can’t do it you need P mean like reports can’t do it you need P reports so that side of things so let me say it this way this is going to sound bad but it’s this is how I perceive it right there is a there is a need to data dump there is a need to Mass export things and I think well that’s one area where paging reports goes well all right that’s one
32:01 reports goes well all right that’s one of that’s one you’re going to go other ones I was say the other one it’s always on anyone can access and get that data dump immediately they don’t have to worry about a refresh it’s immediately going to have the latest data usually that’s interesting I I didn’t think about that one but yeah it is well If you’re pulling from a semantic mean if you’re pulling from a semantic model you’re you’re relying on that but the pageant report at the time of request gets whatever is currently available in right the server the thing so if it’s a view on a server and the data is changing it gets that that current view of data that make sense
32:31 current view of data that make sense yeah yeah and the potential complexities here is Mike what is your biggest gripe with power query we talk about how great it is but at the same time we all know there’s a growup story eventually with powerquery now I’m assuming they’ve worked on this where that P that business user the self-service we’ve hopefully taught them put them through proper training we still struggle with doing dumb things in power query at add too many steps speak for yourself come on I’m
33:01 speak for yourself come on I’m just just kidding remind you of technical debt but just a little extra steps there but no but like at the same point it’s very it’s incredibly easy it’s amazingly easy to transform manipulate data with power query but almost at your own discretion because you don’t realize how many steps you sometimes add so all of a sudden now that potential case for error of power query comes
33:31 case for error of power query comes into play and now you’re dealing with again this data dump rows and rows of data am I calling power query every single times this happens right and this business user do I trust them to do that and I think that’s where I’m seeing the potential if you were to say the negative side the half empty side of this where Tommy I’m listening pull pull your head out of it land you’re you’re talking about oh can we trust the business user and like they
34:03 trust the business user and like they they could be making errors and power query where you now have an interface where you have steps for every action that you’re doing you can walk through them you can remove them you can add them you can modify things and what is their current landscape today without it it’s the one I just described they’re doing all this stuff in Excel or manually or by key look up or dude like it’s all craziness right now this helps
34:33 it’s all craziness right now this helps them so if they make mistakes it’s on them just the same way you’re you’re reducing that surface area though by giving them an interface that they can consolidate all that down to as opposed to hidden stuff in Excel files you I I’m going to manually generate this report I’m going to load it into this spreadsheet oh crap I forgot I added this like vlookup crazy thing I just knew like I just removed 30% of my data in the next tab but I didn’t
35:03 my data in the next tab but I didn’t realize it like that stuff happens all the the time and what that’s fair that’s absolutely fair and what Devil’s Advocate 1. 0 I con seeed that you can’t assume everyone’s going to be at the level of maturity you are in this organization so I I think I think I think Seth you bring a really good point there and to be honest like I’m playing with it right here on my computer I’m getting some data from a lake house I’m pulling it in I’m playing
35:33 lake house I’m pulling it in I’m playing around with it like to be honest I really like this experience like when I did page reports before it was clunky I didn’t know how I didn’t understand the data set experience I didn’t know how to get stuff in so like even just the even just like from a business user standpoint right people love powerbi because I can go into powerquery do the thing make my table click a couple buttons boom it’s already there it’s very easy to this this to me reduces a lot more friction for me to get that initial data load into pin reports which anything we can do to make
36:04 reports which anything we can do to make that easier great because there is a there is a reason why we want to use this and this I think again I think it’s about making things more accessible to people to build things that they need inside powerbi and whether or not whether or not we can trust like I’m a big proponent of I don’t really care what data is being made in the organization as long as there’s a policy in place that says there are handoff or transitions between okay Central team is going to make lake houses and this data will be in there and correct you pull from that build
36:34 and correct you pull from that build whatever you want but whatever you build that is your responsibility and there is a is a a way a method to have leadership understand that things coming out of this team or from these people the transition of responsibility has transitioned and so as long as that’s documented and people know where to go and when there’s problems with things they can go fix it as long as that exists I’m fine let the business unit do what they want to do to make to make things work I’m okay with it so you raised my next question that I I’ll
37:05 raised my next question that I I’ll propose to you this is devil advocate 2. 0 you’re the director of bi big organization middle organization doesn’t matter there’s a sharp spike in pageat reports across the organization both I doubt that’ll ever happen but okay we’ll keep going with this one this is sounding more like like a dream at this point but goe keep going we got power query now that’s what I’m trying to say so okay okay so there’s there’s a pretty significant spike in usage and creation of passionated is that a good is that a
37:36 of passionated is that a good is that a positive is that the direction you’re trying to go or is that something we’re trying to deter because I think we all have a no I don’t I I think I think even your question is a bit I think even your question is a bit off like let me so I understand your question I think where you’re going right big Direction Where are we trying to go right let’s talk data culture here for a moment what is the data culture trying to drive and right you’re you’re assuming a couple things here that I want to just be very clear about people in organizations even large organizations
38:06 organizations even large organizations don’t even know there’s an increase use in pagey reports that’s fair so first and foremost I would say a lot of organizations just in general struggle with what are we doing in powerbi. com in in general no one has comprehensive reporting around what all this looks like so one as as so I’m going to play this like this is my game here right in my organization I’m going to have some reporting on it if I’m looking at it regularly that’s on me the director but I’m looking at what’s going on when I see behaviors that are inside the ecosystem I think I would want to
38:36 the ecosystem I think I would want to understand the behavior first before I start saying or making judgment calls around that’s what we don’t want we don’t want that behavior what could what could be happening is the someone on a team or some teams have figured out hey we can start using page reports my customer needs data we’ve got to figure out how to get data out of our system page report it get it right and then send it to the the customer and so now there’s a daily or even weekly exercise maybe weekly maybe daily exercise of people lifting data out and serving our customers so one I’m I’m
39:07 serving our customers so one I’m I’m first saying let’s understand the behavior as to why it exists so the first observation would be is yes it’s increasing maybe that’s good maybe that’s what we want so then I would from there go to the next step would be okay let’s figure out who’s doing the increasing volume of those things that’s the next thing and then I would go talk to them and say hey I see you’re finding a lot of value in adding additional pageant reports tell me why you need this is there any way else any other way we can further automate it can we build you a portal
39:37 automate it can we build you a portal that has the pagey reports built into it automatically for the customer so even even still like I’m still not worried about like that may be the output of that response may just be they need to get the PED report done and outport Export the data if that’s driving value and automating things for that team great there’s probably opportunity to do more but for now like let’s understand the need so again I feel like it’s a progression step where you’re you’re
40:08 progression step where you’re you’re trying to engage the business in what I would call like the hardest or the most difficult areas of the business let’s go find where we’re spending a lot of time and people to manipulate data and start focusing on what can we do to automate and produce that in a regular pattern over and over and over again right so there’s there’s two balancing parts to this story there’s the central bi team that is doing regular metered it the usage is more consistent because it’s
40:39 usage is more consistent because it’s it’s a very steady process because we know that this is going to be used a certain way then there’s the other side of the world which is what everyone wants to talk about is self-service so there’s a self-service bi and self-service bi I think is a lot harder to plan for from a capacity from a usage there’s a lot more spikes in random demand you get the I’m going to excel user I’m going to show up to this really big model and I’m going to try and rip out 100 columns and not filter anything and the the machine literally the queries just grind to a halt and
41:10 the queries just grind to a halt and then you get bad reports of well my Excel files are very slow I can’t get data out now let’s let’s talk about behaviors let’s talk about what that looks like so then again now we’re talking a slight data culture change right are did we not do a good enough job explaining how to get from a cube into an Excel file or a cube into a page reports what is going on there and maybe maybe they don’t need the Excel document maybe we should have pushed them towards pageant reports in the service or we should actually teach them how to build their own pageant reports on their
41:41 their own pageant reports on their machine and pull direct from the lake house and not kill my semantic models like there’s again there’s a lot of like behavioral changes that I think we have to understand yeah to still get them what they want but yet do it so we don’t spend a ton of extra capacity so that’s where my I feel like the game I play a lot is right I want to do the solution with the least amount of cost possible I’ll accept that answer sorry that’s a long answer for a lot of things there’s a lot of thoughts there Seth what do you think I I agree don’t even say I agree no I do just no just because just
42:11 no I do just no just because just because so all all the highlighted points right Tommy you’re you’re assuming that because a large Spike of paginated report usage happens that equates to something bad and what I like about Mike’s answer equates to something what I like about M Mike’s answer is having an understanding of like activity in a system or behaviors that are changing what does it mean what are the opportunities or what is happening in the organization that’s
42:42 is happening in the organization that’s changing and the argument could be made that hey we’re we’re letting people know like that paginated this thing is available to them it means people are starting to pull data through this new thing and there’s value to them there what we can presume or what we would follow up on is what what is that value you didn’t have access to the data before or it’s a automated process that now can be repeatedly done to get their
43:12 now can be repeatedly done to get their and generate their data sets and then further beyond that hey if if we see this rampant Spike up what’s better about that is I now know or have a path to see what they’re doing versus the wild west right now of excel right and then I can drive towards hey if we’re doing these things for automated and solid insights are are you guys like what are you doing with the data well we’re we’re pivoting it we’re doing these things great well did you doing these things great well did we can get you faster insights by
43:44 know we can get you faster insights by taking this raw data and actually shaping it into Vis visualization so I think like you’re progressively or intentionally using the tool set or could to enhance the data culture story like M Mike is talking about the more people are working with and understand that the transformation process of data and how to start shaping it for their needs the more valuable the organization as a whole is going to be and the easier those conversations down the road are
44:14 those conversations down the road are going to be as well and and well that’s fair and to your point yeah I made a lot of assumptions there are a lot of leaps I made with the question and obviously that’s part of the devil advocate’s side I like both of your answers and and I I like the the reply because yeah there’s a lot of behavior there too a few things I’ll say that I still think how much do you push this and this is where I I’m really considering this if I’m thinking of the on boarding for self-service or the on boarding of bi for teams
44:45 the on boarding of bi for teams departments how much is this the push and the reason I say that is yes this is a solution and a solution in a lot of cases however we already know how hard it is to get people off of data dumps as it is or Excel tables they’re familiar with that I don’t think you’re GNA I don’t think you’re going to have a single day where you’re going to be or change in a month that’s gonna allow you to get rid of all that anyways exist on so and I think that’s has to be part of the conversation part of the understanding too right because I I
45:16 understanding too right because I I literally just had a conversation two days ago and it was next power B Report with 45 pages that was basically a passionated for every page but you ask what do they want like this with another column because it’s one of those the Unknown Known they don’t know what else is available and powerbi what I can do it’s just what I think is available and I think that has to be part of the acceptance if you’re pushing passionated that yeah now
45:46 you’re pushing passionated that yeah now you if you want to shift towards an easier answer because this may solve a problem quickly but is it the right solution in the long run and how hard is it going to be to shift people towards I think I don’t want to say what we want them to do because again I I can’t argue with Seth with the idea that we want people to know and work with the data and be familiar with that so I can’t argue with that but there’s a part of me still with I want people to be pushed
46:18 still with I want people to be pushed towards that data culture and that’s not data dumps at the end of the day but I I disagree with you I think it it could absolutely be part of of a program to get people up up to speed on how to utilize data or understand the capabilities of the tool sets that they have now with this you have a very easy way to say listen if you guys and and you can do this in any business area I guarantee five conversations will
46:50 area I guarantee five conversations will produce examples in anybody you talk to in the business how many EX like reports are you put together that come from multiple sets of data all of them how much time are we wasting generating this report over here generating this report over here combining the things doing doing the things I need to do to fit the data together before I even get to my analysis this is a easy step to say hey there’s this new interface over in this
47:20 there’s this new interface over in this tool go connect to these things do the transforms and you get one table that is your table you can output that you can start doing analysis on what did you just do you drove efficiency into the organization right now I have one output that I can go do things with follow-up conversation after you get people driving to efficiency to not do jobs where they think copying and pasting is a job and and dude it’s all over the
47:50 a job and and dude it’s all over the place right oh yeah push this in efficiency now that you’re analyzing the data we’re all in the same data set what are you doing how are you aggregating the data what are you analyz some of it is hey man I need to rowby row stuff that’s what we’re doing we’re analyzing the values and verifying this but it would be great if I had some outlier detection or if I could see what values all have this thing hey that’s a great conversation let’s have it did I can take this data set and produce
48:20 I can take this data set and produce these visuals for you and automatically which ones are the ones you care about holy crap Tommy you’re the best thing in the world right so it’s a progressive step where people I think get struggle and we’ve talked about this is they can’t make the mental leap of like connect all this data transform it and my interface is powerbi what what happens what happen like I I don’t know the metric but I guarantee you most of self-service is generating a table of
48:52 self-service is generating a table of data in powerbi that’s what they’re doing right now so this is a much clearer step to me in a tool set that is like designed to dump out tables of data the minute you go to the next step is where we start talking about powerbi and and from this interface now because power query is part of that to take that and leverage it into powerbi or understand like here are the things that they’re doing the data sets that they need so I can pull that into my model and then have you
49:22 that into my model and then have you that into my model and then have a much more full-fledged solution know a much more full-fledged solution but this is all the incremental steps towards that yeah and I think I think Tommy again I I want to I want to illuminate there’s like two maybe paths I’m thinking here too right there’s like this the certified stuff right so things that we know are governed regulated you that we know are governed regulated we we’re like we know what know we we’re like we know what the output should be for that stuff and that and that to me feels like it comes from more Central bi there’s a whole bunch of like loow hanging fruits or other analysis things that are occurring one-offs self-service things
49:53 occurring one-offs self-service things like other things that are occurring here that just need lots of information to get out somewhere and let people I to get out somewhere and let people you’re never you’re I don’t think mean you’re never you’re I don’t think there’s any solution I’ve ever seen that could say look I can totally get rid of Excel and never use it again and extract data and move things around it it just doesn’t happen that way so any tool that you produce the first question any tool the first question is how do I export it where’s the export button every tool doesn’t matter what it is so I think there’s always going to be some layer of need there I think what I would like to
50:25 need there I think what I would like to maybe highlight here in this is yes this adds a lot of capability for a lot of the organization I think it would be very important to identify across your team or TOS your company in the data culture that you have right now where are the areas of heavy usage in analytics what’s going on there and is there anything that we can help automate push forward
50:46 that we can help automate push forward move more into powerb report so it’s it’s consistent and it’s regularly coming out but full well knowing there’s going to need to be a plethora of tools and a plethora plethora of stuff that’s going to need to exist that’s just going to be throwaway work it’s going to be I have this one-off analysis for this financial team I’m going to do this thing we’re going to run it we’re going to figure out why we’re going to present it and we’re going to move on that report will never be used again it doesn’t make sense to make that all Central bi stuff and to to assume that a central bi team will need to be doing all that work and we’re going to move
51:16 all that work and we’re going to move everyone away from straight data dumps I think is I think it’s a a short-sighted picture of where we think the organization should go and I think this also it gets extended in terms of value for many different use cases where I’m I’m an analyst I have to produce a data set for somebody else or I’m doing something and that’s where the subscriptions come in and even the new feature where you can subscribe and dump a file in one driver SharePoint huge win right now now I
51:48 SharePoint huge win right now now I don’t have to do any manual work I literally can take all this data do the transforms dump it out and I had to deliver this thing for somebody else and that file gets there sent there every single day the other the other aspect of this that I I guess on the complete polar opposite I think unblocks the potential for more people to learn paginated because where page is good albeit in an old school way is Pixel Perfect reporting it’s generating a PDF
52:20 Perfect reporting it’s generating a PDF right if if I’m a business user and oh my gosh like I need to create an invoice form right I’m mean accounts bail avilable or like what we don’t have something to do like something to put that together I need to generate a thousand invoices but I don’t we don’t have any format for that well before the blocker was I my data is not in SQL I I have no idea how to connect to it like I don’t know what I don’t know how to consolidate all my data like this unblocks that data connection problem and allows them to just care
52:52 problem and allows them to just care about the thing that they need to create which albe it is a learning curve but that’s the front end it’s the how do I build the front end thing and once I do boom I can generate all of these yeah that’s we didn’t even talk about the other learning you have to do around just getting the design nothing nothing’s free but at the same time like this is a Monumental leap in in this tool to open the doors for other people to use it or for it to get wider
53:22 to use it or for it to get wider adoption okay so we have yeah so I think we’ll pause there I know we’re going on time and I I’ll give my my last thoughts because I think we could oh man I could keep going with this I don’t need coffee when I talk to you to this is just what I need I me I think this is a great topic and again I think this is I think Tommy this is a good point I think what this this is a real struggle for organizations today currently how much of how much do I let people just run wild and do stuff how do I control it how much do I control where
53:52 I control it how much do I control where do we feel like we can then open up and let people do their own thing so I this is is to me I think this is challenging a lot of what people have traditionally done because there’s there’s been a lot tighter control around a lot more of the data inside organizations and this is a tool Microsoft has made it very clear everyone’s a data analyst and some data cultures and companies aren’t equipped to be able to let that happen yeah and I I think that’s again Seth you just brought up something I didn’t think about super easy to get data in no one tell a sense in a completely different user interface than anything in powerbi
54:24 user interface than anything in powerbi yep just try to do if you want to do repeating columns like good luck have fun like best of luck Googling that anyways but my my final thoughts and I I think I I think a combination with you guys said I I’ll I’ll tend to formulate in ter terms of a strategy the biggest thing I’ll say is it’s it’s very hard to change a group of people’s behavior so if this is something you’re going to push I think there has to be a follow-up story but I think very much to what Seth said if this is a stepping
54:54 what Seth said if this is a stepping stone and a necessary stepping Zone in your data Culture by all means push it yep but I I can’t just say and there in the 80% of the cases the majority of the cases there needs to be a follow-up story too like okay we’re going to push for you paginated you can own it in a month or so we’re going to follow up with you and we’re gonna have a necessary conversation on is this the final solution is there something better because once you get that behavior in
55:24 because once you get that behavior in man it is so hard to get people now to adapt again to change the technology again whatever technology you’re really introducing especially when it comes to data again think of it think of as a learning experience right so this is this might be step one right so this is where your Community Practice comes into play this is where you do the monitoring and potentially right if you have monitoring set up right you can carve out portions of reporting based on workspaces and send those to different team leaders in those different workspaces again if you have if you set
55:54 workspaces again if you have if you set up the structure of the organization of your center of excellence the people that are using this there’s a there’s a Federated individual from that team that is representing what they’re doing in their workflows participating in the Central Community around what what is parbi so let them do let them do the work they need to do and to your point just let them know hey we’re monitoring it we’re looking at things the central team is setting up best behaviors and best practices and we’re going to find where we see teams not doing best practices and then working
56:25 doing best practices and then working with them and educating trying to push them towards a different way so again it’s a progression certain teams may not even have the skills hired on their team to go beyond dumping data and then do it in Excel but that may change over time so again I don’t think it’s always a set in stone thing it’s a a moving Target to some degree be aware that you’re organically creating a process and a habit for a team with any technology Implement so i’ I’d rather do that than have none cool I’d rather I’d rather influence the behavior than just let it just happen right right totally
56:56 let it just happen right right totally agree Seth any final comments you as we wrap love the feature change I think it opens some fantastic new use cases for a wider audience to find pageat reports yep and and there may be some on the full like the far end of kind full like the far end of the pixel and subscription Pixel Perfect and PDF generation that we we could talk about further but I’m most excited about just a tool that allows me to produce data for people in quick ways regardless of if it’s in a model or
57:27 ways regardless of if it’s in a model or not and and that alone and opening the door for them to find some efficiencies in the automation of powerquery I think is invaluable my final thoughts here are is we thought we were going to run out of topic on this one and we were we weren’t going to be able to talk through all of it so here we are an hour later and we’ve been able to talk nothing about or everything about page reports and we didn’t even touch on folders at this point so I will say folders are cool I like them next time we’ll talk more about folders but for page reports I think again my main thought here is the
57:57 think again my main thought here is the data culture is already happening in your organization I would again you wouldn’t drive a you wouldn’t drive a car blind you shouldn’t run your powerbi environment without some monitoring on in place honestly I really wouldn’t you need some you need some deeper insights as to what’s going on in your environment and again that S I can’t stress enough there’s there’s some major wins that organizations that do well with powerbi there’s a habit that they typically enact one of them is they have a executive sponsor for all of powerbi that’s letting people
58:28 for all of powerbi that’s letting people figure things out helping structure helping governance things happen the second thing is it’s the center of excellence there needs to be a Consortium of people in the company that are helping set policy and direction if you if you say we’re never going to export data that’s so we we cannot allow that then this is probably ping reports probably something you want to minimize the use of if you are an organization that’s going to balance Central and self-service a bit more or allow more self-service for specific teams you’re the the central team is responsible for
58:59 the the central team is responsible for educating deciding the patterns figuring what that is they are responsible for this for helping the organization move forward with the the policies and education of the people so we can then better utilize the technology so I think a lot of this is just like culture-based things and you don’t influence the culture without some sort influence the culture without some leadership helping support that of leadership helping support that anyways all this to say thank you all so much for listening to the podcast we hope this was valuable for you we hope you were arguing as you were walking or doing your activities as well with us
59:29 doing your activities as well with us about your opinions around this if you found a different perspective or if you like a perspective here is that you found in the the podcast please share it we really really need the help getting this message out to other people we think people would like the podcast if they find it and we’re trying to talk about good topics so if you liked it please share it Tommy where else can you find the podcast think I’m on a four for four streak by the way with not getting with saying the words properly so you can find us you can find us in apple Spotify or wherever you your podcast make sure to subscribe and leave a
59:59 make sure to subscribe and leave a rating it helps us out a ton do you have a question an idea or a topic that you want us to talk about in future episode head over to power. tips podcast leave your name and a great question finally join us live every Tuesday and Thursday a. m. Central and join the conversation on all of powerbi dops social media channels we thank you so much and we’ll see you next time
60:54 [Music] out oh
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