Getting Your Dream Job – Ep. 350
Landing the right role in analytics isn’t just luck—it’s a mix of clarity, positioning, and doing the unglamorous work consistently. In this episode, Mike, Tommy, and Seth talk through practical tactics for getting hired, standing out in interviews, and building a path to the job you actually want.
News & Announcements
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Microsoft Fabric August 2024 Update | Microsoft Fabric Blog | Microsoft Fabric — Welcome to the August 2024 Update. Here are a few, select highlights of the many we have for Fabric. V-Order behavior of Fabric Warehouses allows you to manage the V-Order behavior at the warehouse level. Monitor ML…
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PowerBI.tips Podcast — Subscribe and listen to the Explicit Measures podcast episodes and related content.
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Power BI Theme Generator — Power BI.tips - The worlds best theme generator for Power BI reports. Increase your speed to develop stunning reports using this free theme generator. Themes are essential for any report developer’s tool belt. Visit…
Main Discussion
Getting hired is part skill, part strategy, and part consistency. The group talks through what actually moves the needle when you’re looking for a new role in analytics / BI, including:
- What to optimize first (portfolio, resume, LinkedIn, or network)
- How to stand out when everyone says they “know Power BI”
- Building credibility with real work (projects, writeups, demos)
- Interviewing tactics: telling stories, explaining tradeoffs, and showing how you think
Looking Forward
If you’re job hunting right now, focus on controllables: build proof of work, sharpen how you communicate impact, and keep your outreach steady. Your “dream job” usually shows up after you’ve built enough signal that the market can’t ignore you.
Episode Transcript
0:29 good morning and welcome back to the explicit measures podcast with Tommy Seth and Mike good morning everyone good morning Mike good morning Seth good morning everyone excellent well we’re all here and ready to go thrill let’s wake up yes yes Sunday Sunday Seth I found something up with Seth just offline the reason I think I’m always so excited in the morning ready to go is because I have Seth voice stuck in my head in different things and when
0:59 in my head in different things and when I read stuff now I can hear Seth sarcasm and I’m I’m not saying I wake up to that because that would be weird that would be weird I was about but after my first cup of coffee there are things that I read that’s like we have a new fabric update said as said as Seth as Seth which is which is which is funny because in order to hear the voice that you hear I’d have to listen to the podcast back which I I don’t do I don’t listen to
1:30 which I I don’t do I don’t listen to myself myself reg so it’s yeah I have over 350 hours with you online I’m sorry Tommy I’m just gonna apologize right out right off the bat if that’s happening to you that’s I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing we’re on a trajectory man we agreed on our last one this the first time for everything it took 349 episodes but we were on point together on point on the save wavelength you may you you may still not understand when I’m being
2:00 may still not understand when I’m being sarcastic versus not but hey at least my voice is in your head I guess ears to another 350 hours yeah maybe maybe after another another 350 God I I would hope so that you would understand my humor after that many more hours spent with me that’s funny funny all right so today’s main topic let’s jump in for our main topic today we’ll be talking about getting your dream job in maybe business intelligence
2:31 intelligence course business intelligence that’s where we’re at dream job in cooking yeah well maybe this is not your cup of tea maybe you don’t want to stay in in bi forever maybe you want to move out to something else I might get my dream job in dashboards or reports definitely in dashboards to catch that to catch that joke you’d have to go listen to our previous podcast so pause back listen to Tuesdays all right but before we get into our
3:01 all right but before we get into our main topic about dream jobs and business intelligence and just talking through that experience let’s do some news and literally right I think Tommy said just moments before this one started yesterday evening it says yesterday but the Microsoft has pushed out a Blog a fabric blog of a bunch of new features that are coming out and there is a ton of changes and updates and things that are going on so what what stood out to you in this in this month’s update for all the features
3:32 this month’s update for all the features coming out from fabric well first I just want to say Microsoft do it on a Wednesday like early Wednesdays when you’re going to release these I think they have our one note of our agenda and they know when I finish it and they go and now we’re gonna drop and we’re done and we’re done we’re ready that being said there are a ton I think a lot we found out from the powerbi one because they’re really merging them so I’m going to focus on one I am very excited to try this was I think previewed at one point and it’s
4:02 I think previewed at one point and it’s only for f-64 but it’s my personal one that I’m most excited for and it’s this AI skill capability they already had a Blog for this but this to me is exactly where I think that merging of skills between AI what we’re getting with generative Ai and actually solid data for those who have not seen that preview it’s a capability where you can build an answer and questioning over AI systems over your lak houses and warehouses
4:32 over your lak houses and warehouses which to me is exactly the trend I think Microsoft wants to go hey let’s get the best people in data and now let’s actually add that on top of what AI runs on data so I am really excited to try this one out I think this is going to be something that you’re just going to see more and more people do I hope they make it more generally available not just for co-pilot or an f64 skew that’s what it’s available on now but that’s G to be huge and along with that dude more
5:03 to be huge and along with that dude more Notebook updates I love it I do like The Notebook updates for things are coming through here think yeah I’ve been communicating this to my clients and things I’m on this Camp of all data bricks all Fabric and the more that they’re improving the fabric experience the closer I’m getting to I think we’re getting very close to more and more of what I want to do or build or build or can just be solely completed or done
5:33 can just be solely completed or done only in Fabric and I’m walking more towards the fabric Camp as we go here there was a lot of feature gaps I think initially many of them are getting resolved and it’s getting better and it’s getting easier to do things so I really like it that yeah I can literally hear the smiles of all the Microsoft product people in the future B from what you just said Mike yeah there you go that was not sarcasm at all that was very very no that my comment was real
6:03 no that my comment was real too as Mike’s like zooming in his camera well try to emphasize my point it’s something to be said with the notebooks and take it from I think I feel like I’m a pretty good case study here where two years ago I didn’t have to work in notebooks or really wasn’t necessarily a solid skill but they’ve made that experience so easy to get started and it’s something I’ve obviously Dev a lot of time too and put it in part of my workflows put it part
6:33 it in part of my workflows put it part of some of my client workflows as well but with co-pilot both and vs code and with the ease of use getting started with a notebook and fabric there’s really the barrier to entry is so low and I think that’s the thing I’m most impressed with right now I I like the the ability for everything to work together so smoothly I think that’s what you’re talking about there’s there’s a very low entry I still feel like ‘s there’s a lot of hesitation from the business user
7:04 lot of hesitation from the business user realm of what is Fabric and why do we need to use it a little bit I think we are professional developers in powerbi things so we understand that know there’s a need to do some data engineering but yet use these other tools it does take time to get used to a notebook and how it works and what it can do I just saw Michael kosi announced the semantic Labs just came out with an update with over 200 100 functions to do automated everything you can rip
7:35 automated everything you can rip across all your semantic models in a single workspace do best business practice analyzer all these really useful automation of tools and things using semantic Labs again all built on top of the concept of a notebook examples are given to you like man it is when I hear this though my my initial reaction is man it notebook are moving so much faster in development than like data flows or other things and
8:06 than like data flows or other things and I feel like I’m getting there’s other parts of the tools that are getting left behind because they’re not integrating well with other parts of the tools so I’m just really myth right now is I still really just having a lot of pain in my heart around I love data flows they’re great data flows Gen 2 don’t seem to be as efficient as a a notebook running data flows Gen 2 can’t be parameterized from a pipeline there’s just like some very basic features like why aren’t these fixed yet like we’re we’re this far into the game and we
8:37 we’re this far into the game and we still can’t run a pipeline and have parameters passed to a data flow that seems seems crazy initially it makes sense because data flows have been around since again since my daughter’s been born since 2017 so they’ve already done a ton of feature updates to it whereas notebooks they’ve had to come up with it already had the engine that makes it so efficient in data bricks in other tooling they haven’t and the only updates to me the data flows has been somewhat feature but they have to focus
9:07 somewhat feature but they have to focus now and I I bet you or I don’t know but there’s a lot of work being done how do we make data flows more efficient that was already part of notebooks before fabric I’m not disagreeing with you about they’re working to make data flows better and work easier but if if you’re coming but my point here is if you’re coming from the business if you’re coming from powerbi as it stands today you use data all the time you’re you’re using them to offload works from you’re on Prem stuff so I feel like the business business users coming to fabric
9:38 business business users coming to fabric if you’re going to bring them in and you want to make it easy for them to start using and consuming more fabric things you’ve got to make the data flows experience premium you got to make it as easy as you possibly can and then those users will also feel comfortable oh well pipelines aren’t that disc difficult difficult or scary I can use them okay great well now that I’ve been doing data flows and pipelines and they work well together let’s explore some other things what about the sparkk stuff oh interesting I’m learning some other people doing useful things with notebooks let’s incorporate some of that and so now becomes more of this
10:09 and so now becomes more of this the entry point for a lot of business users are going to start with semantic models data flows yeah and so the other tools that are there are excellent but they they they need less friction to work with data flows that’s just maybe I’m just adding on a solid Point actually that’s a solid point because I’m lie it’s a solid Point Mike because
10:28 I’m lie it’s a solid Point Mike because there are probably few projects where I was angry that notebooks were faster because I wanted to use data flows I was more comfortable with it at the time and it’s like okay I can clearly tell clearly see how much more efficient a Jupiter notebook is yeah why like why is it that significant yes but it’s a great I can’t tell you why I all I can say is I have internally I have mandated that we don’t use data flows anymore we’ve dropped data flows out of our language we are only using pipelines
10:58 our language we are only using pipelines and not books and you can do everything you need to with a pipeline and a notebook that a data flow could do so to me it’s like well let’s pick the more efficient of the two items let’s just keep doing notebooks all day long and not do any more pipelines but again this this is my goes back to my point earlier new users to fabric or if you’re going to roll out fabric to more companies and more people in departments they don’t know notebooks yet they know data flows so that you’re there’s there’s a there’s a Miss for
11:28 there’s there’s a there’s a Miss for them and now they feel overwhelmed because they don’t know how to use a notebook question for you both for since you guys have both worked in notebooks you take a business user what would be your expected estimate guesstimate ramp up time for someone to start working in notebooks and again you’re taking a business user so you’re taking someone from scratch what would you expect them to say you should be comfortable with notebooks by now doing what just queries let’s just say taking some general
11:58 let’s just say taking some general things you do with the data flow ingesting data and and structuring it or solidifying it no I’m not saying a full Medallion I’m just saying ingesting data something yeah yeah I’m gonna argue I’m I’m gonna make the note here or the caveat around how like what what language do you like know how to write in right if you’re a business user and you don’t know how to write SQL at all and you’re not a developer in any form in SQL or you’re a straight business user if you’re a straight business user I there are teams that have definitely people who do a lot of SQL development in their business teams yeah
12:29 development in their business teams yeah happens it’s it’s a part of the data culture how they’ve hired for their Department whatever that may be man you’re fortunate so if you have people that have written some sequel I don’t think it would be very hard to say you think it would be very hard to say couple months and then they’d be know couple months and then they’d be proficient in some of the things because you’re again to read data is a oneliner to write data is a oneliner so getting data in and out of the lake pretty pretty simple to get things in again this is one of these things where you can scratch the surface and it it can go very deep right you can do a lot of things with it so there’s a lot of
13:00 things with it so there’s a lot of capability beyond that but simple things right grab a data frame load it from a lak house write some SQL do some transforms build a couple cells and then write it back down to the lake that’s what you’re doing in data flows anyways you’re doing you can do some complicated things but most of it’s filtering joining picking the right columns adding a couple new columns and then putting the data back down somewhere else so you can go use it again so if that’s my common workload with what data flows are doing yeah most of what you can do can be in the
13:30 of what you can do can be in the notebook now when you start doing more complicated things are you are you able to use it and be yeah proficient and do all these that would take a little bit more time I think so I don’t know it depends if your business user group is hey I’m going to call Tommy he’s going to make me report and that’s what I expect out of him like then it’s going to take a long time because they don’t do any data engineering or build it’s just given to them they’re just using par. com so that’s a different person or
14:00 that’s a different person or Persona I would say and I I would change your question to make more sense to me if I was just generalizing it and saying business user if you said analyst okay like like much more in the realm of like they they might know SQL right they would know some formulas in Excel they would do they’d have an understanding of at least data flow of like what happens to data right but
14:30 like what happens to data right but there’s a large Bridge of then you throwing them and just showing notebook versus them being able to do something with data in that notebook right because now you’re scaling them up it’s not it’s not sell byell I can do something I think somebody needs to understand the basic concepts of SQL and SQL is the thing that’s been out for forever and a day and if there’s a business user that knows something is probably that and then because that that that there there’s a huge shift between set-based
15:03 there’s a huge shift between set-based theory of data and like transforming an entire data set with something yeah versus I’m going to do a cell byell thing and I know that this value is changing to this value and I can see that happening in Excel and verify that it’s happening what I’m saying yeah so so we we don’t have a ton of openers but I do want to I want to backtrack for one second just to get your thoughts so Mike you said right in the beginning what you’re finding is that fabric is now
15:37 finding is that fabric is now like all the features that you would be looking for for use your use cases are reaching the threshold for parody Or in some cases exceeding other competing products you you name names I won’t I’ll just say competing data bricks okay what what my thought is here is and it it’s probably it’s in a realm I know nothing about there there are people that make these decisions probably in long-term forecast thoughts but the impact I think is real right the
16:09 but the impact I think is real right the and and the the thought is around the challenge between preview releasing something versus completed release right because we’re now how many months into fabric release right and a lot of our shows and and rightfully so because we’re early adopters to a lot of different things are critical about like things that don’t work or use cases that we found break are not like needed work etc so in my mind it’s like the
16:41 etc so in my mind it’s like the challenge of going ear early in these ways like powerbi has and fabric has is you lose the oh my goodness this product is so much better we’re like we’re we’re on it we’re on it excitement enthusiasm because it would work for most use cases versus the opposite which is it’s going to work for some use cases out of the gate but the more complex ones it takes time to get there so the challenge for
17:12 time to get there so the challenge for the boots on the ground folks though or theer early adopters is there are real Investments of time that happen right out of the gate because you want to use the new thing yes and your comment strikes me because is is there an inflection point which potentially early adop early early adopters like ourselves should push to say okay yes you tested your use case you probably ran into like
17:44 your use case you probably ran into like a myriad of things that aren’t there now is the time to reinvest or retest the use case yes oh you what I’m saying and then and then it just kind it throws my head into like there’s got to be a longer term strategy where this early adopter approach makes more sense longterm versus like everybody ramping up and getting excited about the net new thing and it’s so much better what I’m saying to me that feels I would lose some of the marketing flare of like a
18:14 some of the marketing flare of like a new product versus there is some of that obviously but it’s the I think it’s the the long-term Vision in both powerbi and fabric that is enamoring to folks and rightfully so and should be mhm but where’s with your comment I’m like okay where’s the point at which we go now it’s time to go re recheck these boxes that you may have checked already which is asking a lot of people right especially if you’re looking at platform
18:45 especially if you’re looking at platform shifting this this is there’s there’s two I think there’s two lenses to your question that I’m interpreting it as and you can correct me if I’m wrong here but one lens is hey I’ve already built a bunch of data bricks is have a bunch of infrastructure started it’s around it’s it’s in place what is when is the point in time where I say hm I should start moving some of my workloads away from data bricks and moving it onto fabric what what does that moment in time look like that’s a use case sure that’s that’s one of the use cases the other use case I see again
19:16 use cases the other use case I see again that’s like a lens of like companies are established they’ve got some stuff built things are working right on the other hand I’m looking at it going okay well let’s imagine you are on a different tool altogether you’re doing a different visualization tool tblo maybe you’re doing clicks something else right and you’re saying look our decision is now to move to fabric or you’re moving from you have a powerbi environment and you’re smaller company you haven’t done the investment of big infrastructure and maybe you’re trying to kill on Prem SQL
19:47 maybe you’re trying to kill on Prem SQL servers and you’re trying to move some of your data to cloud or maybe you’re buying more thirdparty tools for the first time so you don’t have an established pattern around what data bricks is doing so that is I think those are the two paths I take a perspective on because to your point Seth if you’re coming from data bricks going to fabric there’s a lot of tech debt you’ve already built things how easy is it to transfer those assets over and can I run them cheaper right can I can I do the same amount of work in a faster amount of time for Less cost that’s that’s your to me that’s your
20:18 that’s that’s your to me that’s your main decide deciding Point yeah but also at the same time like there there’s even and maybe it is a comparison thing of products and services that already exist that that are people are like companies are using right because there’s also an inter internal friction po point where some of these Services as independent Services still offer features that companies are using that aren’t available in fabric yet and that’s and that’s maybe more of my point is as as one who’s very heavily invested in
20:48 as as one who’s very heavily invested in like I like data brecks a lot it’s still my developer choice of the the
20:54 my developer choice of the the business intelligence data manipulation tool I really like it it’s super slick as I go through that though as I get further down that path I’m getting closer and closer to all the features that I were really big showstoppers are big blockers for me I’m figuring either ways around them or Microsoft solving them with different solutions they’re they’re taking the Microsoft approach on how to solve these big data projects so I’m getting and that’s why I’m on this spectrum of if you come to me with a company and you’ve got huge amounts of data I’m still probably going
21:24 amounts of data I’m still probably going to pick data bricks because it’s it does this the large volume of information if I come in with fabric yes fabric could do huge amounts of data but it just makes it easier from a developer standpoint to stick with data bricks but as Microsoft is continually making it more efficient easier to use adding features the barrier to entry for me or the pain that I have when building new projects through fabric is getting it’s it’s getting smoothed out B basically so I’m feeling like the the capabilities are getting more useful if I’m at a company with large scale of data if you
21:55 company with large scale of data if you have small scale of data yeah sure I’m going to go I’m going to go with data all the way because I don’t have these really massive challenges of pig data stuff and internal yeah and internal potentially yes there there’s still some things I can’t go external to either yeah there’s the other side of the coin too where again the majority of people are not looking at the blog like it’s an Amazon package waiting to come for updates right so if someone right right right right so if someone takes a look at the product now says it does not meet my requirements when is that person
22:25 my requirements when is that person going to go back or that organization say let’s revisit it has met our requirements but they are but they are Avid listeners of no they are Avid listen podcast so they would know no those who are podcast listeners are on track yeah they’re fine so there’s they have nothing to worry about but for for everyone else that we’ve not reached the we word has not we reached people all right yeah there’s quite a few all right share share with everyone share with everyone so they could be on point but
22:55 everyone so they could be on point but no but there there’s this big I think the word that you said in flection point I think hits home to a lot of people because their Department go well it doesn’t meet our requirements now they’re not going to say Let’s go see this in a month from now they’re GNA just say let’s find our our alternative okay so so so podcast challenge here a little bit right as as we see some of the new features that are coming out like maybe that’s a that’s a new call out where it’s like H right this this is a long awaited feature or something that you’ve seen in your ecosystems that a
23:26 you’ve seen in your ecosystems that a lot of companies are using where where maybe a reevaluation should be kicked off I’m I’m writing as you guys were talking checklist of come up with a code word for that time F fancy fancy cool thing anyway that’s my point don’t want to derail too much but I successfully did I think for five minutes or so perfect yeah I think we’re getting closer anyways I I love the conversation this is super good the the blog post has been amazing there’s a ton of good stuff in there so you’ll have to chy to check it out for yourself I put the link in the chat window just in
23:56 put the link in the chat window just in case you wanted to see it it’ll also be in the description below so in case you want to go check out the announcements there’s probably something up there that’s going to make you happy because there’s a lot of things changing that being said let’s go into our main topic Tommy give us a a runaround on our main topic so this is part of almost a second part of a series we talked about episode 345 we had a great mailback question and it was about what to look for a new opportunity and this topic is coming from that 345 was about
24:26 topic is coming from that 345 was about what to look for in a new opportunity part of that discussion came into well is there a difference between a new opportunity and what you’d call your dream job or your desired job it’s one thing to have a great career a great job a great place to work but there’s another thing to be this is exactly where I want to be exactly what I want to be doing and exactly on the path that I want to be so the real episode today is about what’s your dream job or how do you get your dream job in business intelligence again yeah cooking so I’m
24:58 intelligence again yeah cooking so I’m going to add a slight Nuance to this like yes the previous one was new opportunity was mailbag driven like how but but more importantly the the individual was asking like how could they stand out how do you make your stuff stand out and and I I think it’s definitely worth a listen because it’s I I thought of it as generalized audience right like this is these are things anybody can do no matter how invested in like work you are or the your technical profession related to business intelligence
25:29 intelligence this one is the where I started green with Tommy in that in that vein where you want you want to stand out not just on a CD like you’re in this to like get to a higher level position or the highest or move your way up through an organization or be a consultant or how do you drive towards being in the running for Microsoft MVPs or like you want to be or one of your goals is to be exceptional in a space and we in
26:02 to be exceptional in a space and we in business intelligence I think we have a lot to offer in terms of like what are the things it takes so that’s where I’ll lean with a lot of like the answers to potentially some of the same things but it it’s more in how do you way differentiate yourself I I think it’ be appropriate to start build our foundation here thinking about I remember one of our early early episodes when we started was like what’s bi going to be in two years from now and how drastically that’s changed so the evolving landscape
26:33 that’s changed so the evolving landscape that we have now our employers looking for something different when it comes to a standout candidate that they were three years ago are they looking for a different candidate well yes I think now I think with all the additional blurring of the line between what fabric and powerbi is I think initially they were looking for people who knew how to data model well could communicate to the bus business and get requirements and basically serve that team of people with making reports and things I think that’s that’s where a lot
27:04 things I think that’s that’s where a lot of companies are looking for and what sadly what a lot of people’s got were people who could build visuals and things on pages of reports they were P report Builders they weren’t data modelers or thinking through the bigger story of how does all this information stitch together to be able to to build the complete solution I I guess where I’m taking aot so I want to ask your question directly I think that’s I think the I think the needs have changed I think the expectation of companies are because it’s fabric how to do it and I
27:36 it’s fabric how to do it and I don’t I think fabric is so expansive now it’s very difficult to find someone who can do all the things it’s difficult to find someone who can build a really good-look report and a high performance data model and all the data engineering that supports the data model and tuning and optimizing data flows and notebooks right there’s there’s a lot of things to know there there’s a lot of
28:06 things to know there there’s a lot of a lot of I don’t know how to trades there’s a lot of different areas that are all being Blended together great very good but that also means you could be the opportunity to do a lot of these different things and it’s not just the skill either so but Seth go ahead I’m gonna disagree o you you asked have the ex have the the expectations changed and and I I don’t think the expectations have changed I think navigating the different buzzwords has
28:37 navigating the different buzzwords has changed right because what what what was the big thing that all data business intelligence people had to navigate you like five years ago machine learning data science right all the thing all the extra you can do with data right if if you’re a data scientist you’re in it’s the next big thing and what are the buzzwords now ai ai is going to change everything right instantly and I think in some
29:07 right instantly and I think in some cases yeah there’s some prototype different types of things you can do with AI I think we’re seeing more machine learning and data science you machine learning and data science extending what you can do with know extending what you can do with data but how many companies do you guys interact with or have even in the last five years that are on The Cutting Edge of being able to do that with their data yeah it’s it’s a small fraction and this I think I think even goes into what what Tommy pointed out in a couple episodes too which was that made me reflect which was a comment
29:38 reflect which was a comment around something related to like do you guys see that businesses Embrace business intelligence and like I I had to sit there because I’m like it’s not like I’m walking into every organization and oh Wide Open Arms than than God you’re here right like we have so much to do get going right it’s it’s a slog all a lot of our questions are around how do I
30:08 of our questions are around how do I push the business to understand the value of of what we need to build here how do I so how how like I I don’t think the needs have changed holistically I still think the core fundamentals of connecting to data transforming it to make data models that are useful to the business that drive insights are still the core things I think what is important is understanding what the buzzwords are now so that you could potentially reshape your expertise
30:39 could potentially reshape your expertise into not data science like prepping data for data science it’s shaping shaping like well simplifying it right creating the data models that support AI initiatives right as opposed to building the warehouse that serves all the reports as opposed to shaping the data for the data scientist I think I think that to me is the change it’s not fundamentally like all of a sudden all these companies in the last five years figured out that and embraced you
31:09 years figured out that and embraced you years figured out that and embraced what we do y holistically I you know what we do y holistically I you know what we do y holistically I I think it may be particular silos know I think it may be particular silos within an organization but we don’t talk like that we talk holistically there are fundamental things organizations can do
31:23 fundamental things organizations can do to accelerate and we engage with them and push big initiatives but I still find the same challenges that I did even 10 years ago the tool sets have changed and made them easier but how I go present myself that I can solve those problems is what you’re trying to do in your CV yeah we’re still trying to get converters we’re still trying to convert people to to the good news so to speak and I think it’s an important distinction here too as we talk about skills that it’s really important if I were to pull people about what do you
31:53 were to pull people about what do you want to do it’s not just the technical skills that I’m going to connect the data and I’m going to be the powerbi person or the fabric person for me I I would imagine and at least for me there’s a strategic element that I think people want to be in too where I’m not just doing the whims of what someone tells me to do build this report connect to this data modify this is you’re also there’s that leadership role because how much data influences the company again that may not be for everyone but I imagine there’s also that aspect of
32:24 imagine there’s also that aspect of we’re also going to guide the oran organization guide the data strategy here that’s part of the dream doop if because it’s not just technical what we do and I think if we were just to say that oh I’m going to build notebooks all day I think that’s selling a lot of people short on what they would consider their dream job I I was putting some notes down on my my one note here about just just trying to look think through like what does my dream job look like and I think this also depends a lot on your personality right some of your personality pieces are fitting what does
32:55 personality pieces are fitting what does a dream job look for you things I just noted right I love to help others I think I’m a people pleaser so I love being able to step into a situation and have very deep donating knowledge on a particular challenge step in and provide here’s some here’s some ways to think about how you’re getting some assistance that works really well for me and I really get super Satisfaction by being able to walk away from a conversation and having people like go oh the light bulb’s clicking on yeah I’ve also realized I
33:26 clicking on yeah I’ve also realized I really enjoy teaching people so teaching and education is something that’s very i’ I’ve even honed the skills a little bit more to become better in that area but that’s another area that really I love doing I’m very passionate about it my my energy comes out when I present those things so those things I know I need to put myself in placees where I can be doing those type of activities other things I put down here is I like a consistent challenge I like things to be hard enough that I can’t do it but rewarding when I can push through that challenge and then get it done so
33:57 that challenge and then get it done so learning new things seems to put me in that place where I’m able to push myself to the edge and then get through it I want to be able to like my boss I want to be able to to to enjoy that relationship with those people so there are certain things that I can control but there’s also certain things that I maybe can’t control yeah I don’t I don’t want a boss who’s lording over me and and being just really picky about things I want somebody who’s going to work well with me as a team I want to be a team player cuz again I want and I want to make them happy I
34:27 want and I want to make them happy I want want to make sure things are going well so those are my things that I look for like in my dream job and this is going to sound very cliche but like it you want it to be in a place where you you don’t feel like it’s work anymore and it feels like you’re just enjoying and learning and and going through this progression of things that it’s just not a grind and I don’t know how this fits for everyone because some people have different passions about different stuff some people love doing things that are not bicentric right how how do you
34:58 are not bicentric right how how do you there are certain things that you really enjoy doing like how do you make money off those things I don’t know so I have chosen an area of study field I love computers computers are very exciting I’m I’m I’m just like I’m not just like but I’m I’m a nerd like Tommy where was we like really really like doing computery things and a lot of my family fun stuff centers around like we’ll play games we’ll do card games and stuff like that but also the kids and I will play video games together and we enjoy that that’s something we enjoy playing Minecraft together on all four of us together on a Minecraft
35:29 all four of us together on a Minecraft server it’s fun we enjoy that so you just figure out where I think you fit and I and I feel like there is a pattern to this in your 20s you’re figuring out you should try a lot of things because you don’t know what you like yet and I was in mechanical engineering I did a lot of mechanical engineering stuff it was okay wasn’t bad in your 30s you find what you’re good at and I feel like that was where I was starting to get like okay Data Business and intelligence this is interesting I’m liking this this is
36:00 is interesting I’m liking this this is this is hard enough it’s it’s fitting and and forming things that I really enjoy doing and that’s that’s about the time when I started powerbi tips and I started teaching people and then I really pushed into that and said oh this is really cool I’m really enjoying this and so I think now in my 40s I’m like okay really pushing into becoming an expert in this domain and making sure that I know as much as I can in becoming as effective as I can I’ve seen someone on someone’s phone they have a a screen saver and they and on the screen
36:31 screen saver and they and on the screen saver it says focus on your strengths so sometimes we focus I think a lot on areas where you’re weak where you don’t have the skills and you try and focus on those things there’s also a story to focus on what you’re good at become better at it become best those yeah there was actually in and there was actually a training I was part of a while ago and I forget forget the specific me I’ll try to I’ll try to pull it up and maybe bring it up
37:01 try to pull it up and maybe bring it up in another podcast but but to lean into that point it the the the studies that came out of investing the time in things that you’re not good at takes so much time and energy to bring them up to a a a medium level to not a strength right that that that what your advice Mike in terms of like leveraging leaning into your strength areas is where you accelerate because you already have the
37:33 accelerate because you already have the the drive the knowledge based the whatever that it’s more important for you to invest invest more time in those strengths to differentiate yourself further as opposed to try to build up a weakness area now having said that I will say that there are like highly likely depending on what your goals are there are going to need to be some things that you do need to like lean into speaking speaking is one of those things like communication is speaking in front of people if you’ve
38:04 speaking in front of people if you’ve never done it your goal is to move up in leadership or management or senior like you have to you have to push yourself into those Realms so you get the experience of what it’s like to lead the meeting right to make the big presentation so like there are some things where it’s just like yes you have do it because without it it it is a setback for you achieving those goals but at the same time like in other areas lean into your strengths yeah I I
38:34 lean into your strengths yeah I I have two points off Mike said and actually all of you guys these are some awesome awesome comments but two things Mike that you said that I I absolutely adore one that finding loving what you do where you get your energy from because just what’s going to dictate your dream job is going to be those things that you love and what and how to actually get that really writing it down writing it not just a bullet point but why do you like X Y and Z and why do you think you’re good at it
39:06 Z and why do you think you’re good at it starting there is going to really dictate not just what you want to do right now but where you want to be and the other thing too is you mentioned something what you wanted to do at 20 and what you want to do at 40 and also what you’re good at has evolved I think a big Point here too is what what I look at is if five years from now will I be happy if I continue on this track and that’s something I’m I’m always asking myself the personal story here is when I graduated college I did not know
39:37 when I graduated college I did not know what I wanted to do and I think a lot of people are in that space and it has evolved there have been moments in the last my last my gosh 15 years I’ve graduated college since that’s also evolved as well and one of the things that I did that was Catalyst for me I had a I have a little black book of people I would talk to in network and say and things I was I don’t think you’re supposed to tell little black it was a network book I say a lot of connections in it
40:07 say a lot of connections in it professional no trust me trust me trust me me but but it was really like these people I would meet in like advertising analytics marketing and I would ask what do you do why do you like doing it and how did you stand out and I was found from other people a great question by the way yeah Mike this is what I did with both of you when I I was looking to go into the Consulting thing like what stresses you out about what you do how do you think you stand out why do you love it and that was a huge that
40:40 love it and that was a huge that really what led me on the path to where I am right now and I I can’t imagine myself in another role because I think you guys were a such I’ll use the word again but such a catalyst in informing me because it’s one thing to think what you want to do but I can also can also get that information but I can also see myself in five years because you could easily could have said well you do this this and this ago I don’t I I don’t see myself doing that not just the skill but also the lifestyle because there’s a lifestyle with your dream job
41:11 there’s a lifestyle with your dream job too I know I know there’s a lot there but I think the big part here is I I’ve always looked at is this somewhere I want to be five years from now as well or can I see myself five years from now evolving in this path yeah I think there’s a there’s a couple things in here that are are still high level kind here that are are still high level along this vein but someone else’s of along this vein but someone else’s path is doesn’t need to be your own right like you can use examples of of how people have achieved success or achieved their dream job or the area that they’re in and to to Mike
41:43 area that they’re in and to to Mike your point you you walked through the 20s 30s and and Beyond I
41:49 through the 20s 30s and and Beyond I mean I can’t I can’t speak anything beyond 40s because I’m not through that yet so I’m I’m still trying to figure that I just said 30s and Beyond and Beyond I you’re young there’s this this saying right that the the best time to have started something was like 10 years ago or 20 years ago right SEC the second best time is now right and and and what that what I love about that is there are
42:20 that what I love about that is there are there are so many cases of people who career shift MH later on in life and become like f fantastic right great they find their dream job is it achievable absolutely it is because you bring a wealth of experience that wasn’t there is it specific to the area you need no but you can get there because of all the stuff you’ve learned right is it do I follow the same path do you learn things as you go and like it’s it’s a slower navigation to finding like hey this is
42:51 navigation to finding like hey this is the direction I want to go I’m either going to do this thing because this is what I’m passionate about and and like where I want to be in a business versus this is the other route I’d be happy engaging in running my own thing and the thing that made me chuckle that you said about like Finding Your Own Boss what was what was mentally in in your head like I want I want to like my boss so I’m becoming my own boss that’s why it’s funny for you because my story a little bit I do I do but in any like those are
43:23 do I do but in any like those are those are some of the things like responses to to things you said I think if I was going to lock in on the the areas of of what I wanted to pursue and what I I’ve found the most value or pivoted is business intelligence is a perfect fit because of I was on the business and then I was in DBA and then report building and working with data and I love problem solving so the
43:53 data and I love problem solving so the find being able to learn how to find the stories in data right like people are asking for for insights they they want to know and just looking at tables of data it’s hard to do unless you develop that skill and I learned I absolutely loved it and I think that’s the driver into a lot of powerbi and how do you best present that and represent it and like deliver the quick Insight right because there’s the you may you may know the story but how do you share that with an audience so they understand it and
44:24 an audience so they understand it and this back and forth is is so for businesses right and that I think leads into one of the areas that I’ve like cultivated a lot of skills but I love making big impacts on on on people right Community sharing knowledge but ultimately like in business as well because as your responsibilities get bigger right the stakes get bigger and you recognize that there are so many
44:56 you recognize that there are so many more things you can do with data and the insights that you can provide or the upskilling of individuals and that impact the business as a whole and that’s really exciting to me so I think in many cases dream jobs are positions where the stakes get higher right regardless of the whether that’s in a management role or a leadership role or an architect role right you can get very technical and still have those same
45:26 technical and still have those same responsib abilities right your decisions shape the next 10 years of what the organization is spending money on right those are big deals and that’s where I think if I look at in my advice for like picking the dream job this job this isn’t the way I would view that everybody’s different is this is not the thing I’m I’m I’ve just decided and I’m going to go after and expect to get right now this is what are the skills I
45:56 right now this is what are the skills I I lay out here to be the the person that stands apart from everybody else and what are the steps I need to start doing today to get there and a lot of that in my my view has always been how do I stand out in the places where people appreciate what I’m doing and I think that that is a significant difference in some people’s work Realms and goes to Mike’s point where I not only do you have to like your boss they have to be a
46:27 have to like your boss they have to be a good person and promote the good work that you do because because if you’re going to put in the extra effort meaning learning new tools figuring out what are the big business problems that may not be just the thing that you’re being asked to do it’s it’s the extra stuff that managers will always notice and that’s not not not necessarily like the extra oh all this extra work that you’re executing on albeit you will stand out that way it’s did this person take what
46:58 that way it’s did this person take what I asked and enhance it or make it better or ask me a return question because the insights or analysis they found could impact this area even more wow they they’re thinking about things above and beyond just being requested right and and that could be in both veins more closer to the business right or closer to the architecture hey Seth did you to the architecture hey Seth did that when we just did this thing I know that when we just did this thing I noticed in the ETL that we’re using this function or
47:30 that we’re using this function or we’re we’re on this version of a cluster or whatever the case may be I did some research on that right like I took the initiative to go figure out a better way to do this and I tested it and now like I can execute this but I need another half day to actually implement it but I can have our processing time that that is the stuff that sets you you apart as long as who you’re doing it for pushes that up through the or right if
48:00 pushes that up through the or right if you’re going to move through however at the same time those are the things you would be putting on your CV or your resume right yep I what did you do at such and such a place it’s not like hey I I built etls and blah well you’re a data engineer I would hope you were building etls and new how to like here’s the platforms I used consistently increased performance by 40% implemented this thing and the impact of the business was blah blah blah blah blah like learn this new
48:32 blah blah blah like learn this new technology and as a result net get like trained all the other users on it and we switch switch platforms th those are the standout things that take time to do or be represented and I think that’s where you start to differentiate yourself from a person who’s passionate about what they want to do versus just going and finding a job and and I don’t like there’s no both are great right it takes a lot of work agree get to certain places
49:02 work agree get to certain places sometimes it’s just are you thinking about the things you’re doing today strategically in that long-term path of like making sure you’re incrementally making those steps because it doesn’t happen overnight typically for folks right and does it mean it needs to be two years away no like if you’re in a bad place or your your extra work isn’t being recognized it doesn’t mean that the extra work isn’t still making an impact it just means you can put that on your CV and farm yourself out there it’s
49:32 your CV and farm yourself out there it’s like hey okay challenging job market for sure so if you’re shooting at your dream job does it mean you put in years worth of effort and then start feeding feeling out like where you’re at and seeing if you get any hook hey one of the best places to learn is getting into your dream job earlier than you feel like you’re ready for it because you learn a ton right totally agree everybody’s path is different I think but like those are some of the the advice I would I would push based on my experience yeah I agree with the me the
50:02 experience yeah I agree with the me the mentorship and we I think establishing what you one allowing yourself to flourish in an environment with a mentorship is is critical and absolutely huge as as I consider what do you do to stand out because let’s say you have this base now of I know exactly what I’m good at I know exactly where I want to be I know exactly what I love to do then there’s that other element too of how do you convince others of that right because you can send out the resume you
50:32 because you can send out the resume you can send out the CV but there there’s all this other I feel there’s all these other elements if you want to say no I also I love working in data adoption like that’s what I want to do I want to do I want to do something with data culture because that’s where I love to be I don’t know if it’s enough to put on the resume and again I don’t know if this is a parking lot topic to to move to that direction but what you said Seth is where I go because it’s one thing to do that internally in an organization and to
51:02 internally in an organization and to have your your boss hopefully your Mentor too I I would highly recommend that but then there’s that other element too of how do you actually then I get others to identify you in that role you want to be or that person you want to be one one point that sticks out to me in both of your conversations here is there’s a there’s a little bit of a vision for a long-term play here mhm we we’re looking further down the road where do I want to be what skills do I want to have what career do I want to develop and build into and one thing I’ll just note here
51:33 into and one thing I’ll just note here is just something that’s just been going along a lot in my life recently has been consistency doing the small things over and over and over again and it may not feel like those I feel like the analogy of of going to the gym is a good example which I should do more of anyways but that’s a side note the idea here is going to the gym day one day doesn’t you don’t get big muscles in one day it’s it’s the product of work of many visits to the gym many times working on something that’s hard many times of
52:04 something that’s hard many times of shaping and working and and pushing against something that’s difficult yeah then you look back at it a year later then you start seeing results and I feel like potentially the same thing also is very much in the same way is careers as
52:17 very much in the same way is careers as well there there’s some there’s things of this that are going to be very interesting and very engaging for you there’s also going to be parts of your career that are just very challenging and difficult to work through the the political in issues within the company how how things there’s going to be things that are just hard to continue to persevere through but I think when you look at that bigger vision of where you want to be going and when you understand more about who you are and what makes your heart tick what makes you want to be engaged with what you’re doing if you can align those two
52:48 you’re doing if you can align those two things you can now set okay I’m going to keep doing this I’m going to take everything as a learning opportunity I’m going to invest in this and I this is what I said this is why said the comment around I want to be able to like my boss or at least like the interaction how we work together right I want them to give me space to build and be creative and develop and build great things and I want them to be able to communicate to me here’s expectations and needs back to the business in a in a healthy way I think that that is a that is a hard
53:18 think that that is a that is a hard skill to find someone who has those those skills in them however if that it what I’ve have done though is whenever I had a boss that I didn’t enjoy working with or for I took note of the characteristics that I wanted to be if I ever became a boss one day so you take all those moments as okay it’s it’s not the easiest thing now but I’ll I’ll take the opportunities as they come and so you may be in a place where you may need to tough it out for a year or two or a couple years until you get to a place where an opportunity does arise where you can be positioning yourself in
53:50 you can be positioning yourself in more in alignment with what your dream job is doing but what are you doing in that time period corre that’s what’s important and I think I think that really if you’re going to take anything from podcast today it’s like it’s that that one resonates with me because I didn’t have long-term goals I didn’t have a a specific career that I was shooting for I was like I was like Dory just keep swimming just keep swimming because I love the area I was in so embrace it as much as you can learn as much as you can and I think that’s where even if you’re in this
54:20 that’s where even if you’re in this realm of like yeah I I love the space I just don’t know where I want to land in it but I do know I want to keep continuing and potentially get into a leadership or decision making position like look at the skills of what’s required for those jobs and that’s what you lean into that’s why we recommend and or you don’t know what you don’t know that’s why we recommend user groups Community tot speaking engagements where you can with those User Group Lear from other people who sharing knowledge with other people because one of the best things like and the community forums are
54:51 things like and the community forums are fantastic for this is you want to feel dumb you do you think powerbi go see how many answers you can you just know off the top of your cuff when you go onto the community you learn so much when you’re like I have no idea how to answer that question let’s go see how somebody else answered it oh wow like that’s where the skill building really like expands for for a lot of folks including myself because you’re forced into these Realms of like well I want to go figure
55:22 Realms of like well I want to go figure that out myself y right yes and that’s so there’s always something you can be doing today even if you don’t know what the goal is two years from now to incrementally move and I think M to your point I do it with my own kids and and how do you differentiate yourself on that line chart between you and somebody else if all you’re doing is going to work and working eight hours right in in the to you’re all going to move at the same Pace however if you spend 15 minutes a day doing the learning you’re incrementally over time going to
55:53 incrementally over time going to supersede where everybody else is at in their techn in their knowledge of something and what what we as humans love to do is compare and go oh my gosh you guys you you’re like so much and it’s like well that happened over a long period of time that just didn’t like it’s not like I just sat down and and crammed the book and now I know all this stuff yes and that’s the importance of like just keep doing something every day to set yourself apart yeah that’s exactly right there’s two themes and I know we’re getting near
56:23 two themes and I know we’re getting near on time but there’s two themes that for me are are are hitting very very close to home and the first one is dream job does not equal perfect job and there’s going to be a lot of things where you want to go where it’s going to be challenging one of the things was speaking for me initially I liked data I liked the technical things and when I realized that if you want to get anywhere if you want to get farther if you want to move forward you’re gonna have to be able to speak to the data and that was very challenging for me when I when I started out initially to not be
56:53 when I started out initially to not be the nerd or like P to me was like speak spart you’re going to be smart it’s like no you have to dumb it down to people you how do you actually speak to the metrics that matter to them and those pressure points and it took time and it was not a fun process I I’ll be very honest on that to get to that or or I’m still working on it but it because I didn’t want to because it was uncomfortable and then the other the other side of the coin in terms of the the other theme is that continuous building I was talking to my wife the other day I said if there’s one thing
57:24 other day I said if there’s one thing that I have improved on or one of my strongest skills is I’m very good at learning how to learn and I think that’s continually important to what we do because there’s no way you can just be static even if what you’re good at right now as we’ve seen with thank you Microsoft fabric is continually changing and I think that’s always like I I pride myself or I love to but I pride myself on all the things coming out it’s like okay I I need to learn how to learn
57:54 like okay I I need to learn how to learn this I need to learn what I don’t have to necessarily be the best person in the room or the smartest person although my anxiety leads me to that sometimes but it’s that real strong ability to say I I can comprehend this I can speak to this I can I know solution where this applies the last thing I’ll say and then this will be my closing thought but for those who hopefully you I think this conversation has really been a major theme of before you actually get that dream job understand what that dream job
58:24 dream job understand what that dream job is to you not just your Exposition it is so much more than just the title and a job description it’s going to be the environment that you’re working in the path that you’re leading on and the skills that you want to cultivate and grow so that’s my final thought from here but man I I I love this this is yeah this is really good I I like that those those are good points Tommy and I think there is a difference there there it’s not going to happen all at once I think my final fault is going it’s not
58:54 I think my final fault is going it’s not going to happen all at once it’s not going to be a one andone deal there’s and there’s no recipe for this I don’t think there’s a recipe for this it’s just I would say talk to people who are doing what you think you want to be doing go listen to other people in and I like your questions Tomy that you’re doing you ask people specifically hey what are you doing how’d you get there give me some I really enjoy there was there’s a podcast that I was listening to and I actually I think I turned you onto it Seth how it’s built how we built this
59:24 Seth how it’s built how we built this yes yeah I love it which was really interesting was a lot of the stories around okay how did Lululemon get to where they are how how the founders build what they need to build how did how did Uber go from a small company to a big company what was the what was the pain and the growth and I enjoyed listening to other people’s stories about where they came from how they got there how they LED these big organizations because it wasn’t it’s all the stories are very different and a lot of things happened throughout these stories where personal things happen and then work things happen and then it was
59:54 then work things happen and then it was just interesting to me to learn these different different stories so anyways there’s a lot of really good material out there to just kind to invest in and learn how other people have gotten to their places of a good work or good healthy place where they are satisfied listen to those talk to people about it my closing thoughts are This and like I I think everything that we’re saying is not just platitudes it’s not it’s lived experience and what we’ve found as successful in our own lives extra effort always wins right so dive
60:27 extra effort always wins right so dive into the challenges and incrementally build your skills and experience daily in in the area that you’re passionate about do you have to love it no it’s work right like some of it’s not as as fun as we want it to be yeah but those learned techniques and those learned skills serve you well over time and if you’re the direction you want to head requires those and then start diving into areas where you can learn them or grow them or cultivate them
60:58 them or grow them or cultivate them all of this eventually leads to being sought after instead of seeking the dream dream [Music] [Music] job say it again write this down again deserves just the last part just the last part all this leads to being sought after versus seeking your dream job that’s a good point right there wise words from Seth we’re going to have to have a new segment wise words from Seth that’s good awesome I think I just made
61:29 that’s good awesome I think I just made him do a spit take awesome thank you all so much we really appreciate this we’ll wrap this episode up really good conversation just talking about some things that are not so techical in nature a little bit more of the the career paths and learned cre Paths of where we’ve been I appreciate it thank you very much for talking and sharing these things this is good hopefully this gives you a couple insights are things that you can go today pull away from and go invest in and learn from and and go do your own things we want you to be happy and enjoying and engaging with your job and
61:59 enjoying and engaging with your job and your career we have found various degrees of success and and comfort in our own business and jobs yeah we we hope you that something else you can pull some insights from us in our experiences Tommy where else can you find the podcast you can find us in apple Spotify or wherever you at your podcast make sure to subscribe and leave a rating it helps us out a ton and if you feel so comfortable share do you have a question an idea or a topic that you want us to talk about future episode head over to power. tisp podcast leave
62:30 head over to power. tisp podcast leave your name in a great question and finally join us live every Tuesday and Thursday a. m. and join the conversation all powerb tips social media channels awesome with that thank you all so much and we’ll see you next time
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