Adopting Fabric In Your Org – Ep. 357
In this episode, Mike and Tommy are joined by Seth Bauer to break down three common Microsoft Fabric adoption scenarios—when leadership wants it now, when decision-makers are on the fence, and when the org is starting from scratch. You’ll leave with a practical way to frame the conversation, identify the right “Avengers team,” and define what success looks like in the first 30–90 days.
News & Announcements
This episode skips the usual news segment and goes straight into the main topic.
Main Discussion
The core of the episode is a framework for “where you are” in your adoption journey, because the right next step depends heavily on your internal posture.
Scenario 1: Leadership wants Fabric fast
When leadership is already bought in and wants Fabric “yesterday,” the conversation is less about selling and more about sequencing.
Key takeaways:
- Define the first set of milestones (enablement, workspace/tenant setup, and a small number of high-value pilot workloads).
- Avoid letting speed turn into chaos: move quickly, but keep a governance baseline so the environment doesn’t become unmaintainable.
- Clarify what “done” looks like in the short term (first 30–90 days): a working pattern, reference architecture, and at least one success story.
Scenario 2: Decision-makers are on the fence
This is the “we already have Power BI—why do we need Fabric?” situation. The emphasis shifts to value and tradeoffs.
Key takeaways:
- Start with the problem you’re solving (cost, capability gaps, scaling pain, or platform fragmentation).
- Frame Fabric in terms of what changes operationally: what new workloads you’ll consolidate, what you’ll stop doing, and what you’ll do differently.
- Build a small business case around time-to-value, licensing reality, and risk reduction (not just feature lists).
Scenario 3: The org doesn’t really know what Fabric is (yet)
For teams coming from other tooling ecosystems (or with a strong existing data culture elsewhere), the first hurdle is shared understanding.
Key takeaways:
- Create a simple “what is Fabric?” narrative that matches your org’s language and current stack.
- Identify a pilot that proves the platform without requiring a massive migration.
- Be explicit about the barriers you’ll hit (skills, ownership, process change) and how you’ll address them.
Looking Forward
A consistent thread through all three scenarios is that Fabric adoption isn’t only a technical rollout—it’s a change-management problem. The fastest teams align on roles, decision rights, and success metrics early, then iterate in public with a pilot that’s meaningful enough to matter.
Episode Transcript
0:26 ni [Music] good morning and welcome back to the explicit measures podcast with Tommy Seth and Mike good morning everyone happy happy Tuesday gentlemen happy Tuesday I was just thinking about your happy Tuesday set the other day and I was thinking we have recently gotten into a pattern where all of our odd episodes are on Tuesdays so as long as the numberers odd oh it should be a Tuesday is that right
0:57 oh it should be a Tuesday is that right Tommy this is 100% right this is my big when we had our Microsoft interview it threw everything off we threw the episode numbers off and Tommy was like totally angry about that yeah there you go this my week re revolves around this podcast something that helps me now when we are where we are we are pre-recording this episode so that’s the reason why I’m bringing this up is because this is a pre-recorded episode we’ve already pre-recorded this one so we will not be live in the chat on this episode we
1:27 live in the chat on this episode we may be able to make it up early and stumble around and jump into the chat if if we’re up early this morning but that being said this is a pre-record episode and it is a Tuesday excellent should join it right Tommy I’m checking the chat all right good I’m here oh that it’s good actually in the chat yeah can you do it right talking to your future self yeah talking to I’ll probably be sleeping I guess we should ask chat who is the best audience member who’s the best speaker on the podcast that way
1:57 best speaker on the podcast that way since Tommy’s in there he can make a comment about himself and he can you can say yes it’s by far Tommy who has the most interesting personality on the podcast I like that comment that’s good that’s funny awesome so we’re gonna Jump Right In no no news or articles today we’re just going to jump right into the main topic today and I’ll let Tommy frame out here this was something that we came up with I think Tommy you came up with the idea we refined it a little bit around how we communicate this this is something I believe that we observe U
2:28 something I believe that we observe U fairly often especially as consultants around different organizations and and even working with not maybe the entire organization but even thinking about departments or portions of your company trying to leverage and do more things within fabric Tommy you want to give us the situation here what’s the setup here yeah and then what are the different situations we’re trying to to talk through today I I would call this one of those About Time episodes and to your point I think a lot of organizations are going through it and from a consultant point of view
2:58 it and from a consultant point of view we’re hearing it we’re going to talk about fabric adoption situations we’ve done implementation we’ve talked about the different scenarios but what we’re talking about here is all of you guys listening us are having the conversations now and beginning to ramp up on hey what about this fabric thing but everyone’s in a different situation and what we want to do is talk about three broad situations people want fabric people on the fence and how
3:28 want fabric people on the fence and how would we cover it and what I want to do with this and what we want to do with this is for each of these situations we want to consider and discuss the following what would be our plan of attack what would be the resources that we would need in order to get this started what’s the team look like like what what is your All-Star team what’s your your your Avengers team what barriers or conflicts would we want to be aware of and what would success look like from a short term obviously it’s going to be a bit broad because we’re talking about some major initiatives we
3:59 talking about some major initiatives we we’re not talking about the size of the organization we’re not talking about the intricacies but we’re talking about some three main situations that are probably going to come up or have already come up a good point so let’s let’s let’s explain all the different scenarios first and then let’s go back and we’ll jump on scenario number one so let’s let’s imagine you are these are these are not necessarily fictitious these are examples that we’ve seen or we’ve observed maybe we’ve slightly changed the story here a little bit just to make it easier to to talk
4:30 bit just to make it easier to to talk about but in situation one let’s imagine your your organization acknowledges fabric is valuable leadership stands behind it and they want it quickly they want fabric as if it was built yesterday get it in place let’s start building things with it how do you do that how do you roll out fabric what are the main I guess Milestones pillars you should you should say these have to be done and then we can say this is Now quickly built so that’s scenario number one scenario number two would be the one who makes
5:02 number two would be the one who makes the decisions your boss or someone else is on the fence about powerbi or sorry fabric specifically par works today but why do we need fabric what is it what added value is it going to give us like we’ve been using this could be a situation where you have a lot of Premium per users we already have premium why do we need to go buy a different Premium what is the advantage there so why should I think about spending more money in and adding fabric to what we already have inside our premium per user or powerbi
5:33 our premium per user or powerbi implementation and then the last situation here is no clue we don’t know what fabric is we’re hearing about it maybe maybe Microsoft is is saying some messages and i’ be honestly I pretty sure how strong the language is for Microsoft if you are a solid powerbi user and you already have things I’m guaranteeing you probably have heard about fabric at some level because anyone at power. com there something about fabric slamming you in the face so you’re probably going to know about it
6:03 you’re probably going to know about it if you are a powerbi. com user however organizations transition from other tools quite often right you may have a strong data culture you may be trans moving from click or Tableau into a powerbi data culture or a powerbi and fabric culture so you don’t really know what it is you’re maybe being told you should use it but how do you sell it maybe you have solid data culture in the space maybe you already have have Rich data culture with other tools and you’re trying to migrate into fabric what does
6:33 trying to migrate into fabric what does that look like for you how do you make that that happen that a good Round Up of this I that’s perfect I think that’s perfect and I like again I want to make the caveat these are Broad and intended to be I can hear people going well you may have yeah in my or yeah we have Tableau and and that’s we know we understand that completely so we’re we’re intending these to be broad but cover some bases we didn’t want to make a 16 hour podcast for this one so so some of us Tommy Tommy Tommy would have been on board yeah what’s interesting is
7:04 been on board yeah what’s interesting is this podcast comes with bathroom breaks because it’s so long exactly you’ve you it’s interesting that the three questions align to what I would think of as organizations that lead in Innovation right you’re you’re on The Cutting Edge and you deal with a lot of all the ambiguity and feature gaps and things yeah in the middle of the road right what is the added like so leading inovation Milestone pillars how do we Implement as quickly as possible second
7:35 Implement as quickly as possible second middle of the road is like where’s the added value we already have a bunch of this stuff and then the third is the slow follower that’s like do I do I need this like if I don’t if I don’t adopt it will I be way behind and it’s like yes you already are behind you just don’t recognize yourself far behind to that last point I’d also add their SE they were like what we have works it it’s not like there’s like there’s other decision points it’s like I’m looking for something I’m not I’m not running to jump I’m not running to jump into something brand new technology wise the
8:06 something brand new technology wise the compelling reason in scenario three feels like it’s purely a cost decision I think we can do this cheaper than what we can right now let’s let’s how can we get how can we reduce cost and keep doing what we’re doing and get people the information they need with less expend the last thing I’ll say for this to the scenarios is our role at this organization too because I think that’s going to be really important is you’re going to hire me I’m glad you I’m glad you brought that up because I’ll be interested in where the conversation
8:36 interested in where the conversation goes because either I get to play along and be like yeah we need these things or I get to play the pessimistic FTE that is gatekeeper to my Organization for you two Consultants I feel like that’s a really good role for you in this situation a really good for is very different I don’t no no no this is not Monopoly where we all have a different card thing like oh look I’m the baker no no no that I’m I’m the boat I’m picking the boat right yeah yeah Amy
9:06 picking the boat right yeah yeah Amy you’re the race car I I in my head I Envision this as we’re all our boss is the one who has the budget but we have the power to move mountains if needed basically we have decision- making capabilities we don’t have the we don’t have the bag of money so to speak so okay would would that be fair would that be fair for that’s exactly what you I just described it okay okay sure make sure so yes I’m on I’m on board with you we’re all we’re all on the same team until I don’t decide not to be decided to hate you
9:38 decide not to be decided to hate you once some once say I don’t agree then I’m the I’m the baker well FTE you don’t know crap about Dax so don’t tell me anything about Dax you don’t know how to do any daxing all right all right let’s let’s go yes you do need a star model a star start we cannot take it right out of the operational we cannot go right to Salesforce and go right into a you’re going to limit me to a star what if I want to be a Galaxy no sorry cannot
10:06 if I want to be a Galaxy no sorry cannot happen power will just fall over and die we’re gonna strongly suggest that you need to talk to Donald he’ll tell you about all about Star schemas right I think we have all the the playing field is pretty clear then okay yeah I think so let’s go let’s jump into scenario number one situation one situation number one scenario number one is your org once fabric yesterday they want to move quickly how how quickly can you get into implementing Fabric and doing it well what does that look like to you brand new brand new analytics
10:38 new brand new analytics impl I think so I would easy immediately I would start with some conversations around high level goals objectives and I in these situations if even if you want to move quickly I do think you need to get key stakeholders into the room agree on some main directions on where you’re going to land with fabric so it’s like as quickly as you can establish a Coe as quickly as you can establish who are the subject matter experts across our organization quickly solicit feedback
11:08 organization quickly solicit feedback from them hey we’re rolling this out what do you need where where what in your current process today are you having problems with and listing I think very quickly in this situation you want to be you want more Advocates on your team to be able to make this thing work smoothly so you have to quickly gather that information summarize it and then put it back out there as okay here’s why we’re doing this it’s going to save us money it’s going to add these features it’s going to add whatever those things are start there and I I was going to say I think we all agree that that’s absolutely a key component but to your
11:39 absolutely a key component but to your point this is where you have to start and I think that’s critical especially even if you have an organization who’s on board or team that’s on board like yeah we definitely want this their idea of what achievement or success looks like may be very different even Department to department so getting everyone even on board here even if like yes we want fabric yesterday this is the thing we all want yep but how they want it can vary completely so starting with the goals starting with that road map on
12:09 the goals starting with that road map on okay what’s the timeline that you’re expecting what are our expectations here aligning those expectations like they were like you can roll it out in a month no no that’s not what we’re talking about we’re gonna need a little bit more time to do that like here like and I think also this to your point Tommy I love what you’re saying there with this one and I also would agree it’s about it’s not only expectation man it’s picking the right first project right right yeah what what are we doing today is there something that is going to add a lot of value I you don’t want to pick the wrong first project if you’re trying to move quickly because you want to jump in do it in a reason
12:42 you want to jump in do it in a reason you don’t want to pick the hardest thing potentially right so if you want to get something a pattern set or established quickly you probably don’t want to pick the most hard thing to do in your organization you maybe you could do that what that does is it takes a longer time to implement it and so people are waiting longer to get something of value and that first intergration with the fabric ecosystem I wouldn’t recommend oh yeah we’re going to rebuild everything out of the Erp system and we’re going to start we’re going to tear it all down and start from scratch that might be too long to get value from people so is there another high value project that
13:13 there another high value project that you could run that will be easy to not easy quicker to implement immediately delivers value and could save time or saves money or actually generates income for the business what does that look like how can we do that and I think that’s the one you really want to focus on because then you could say yeah it was a win we did it yeah it wasn’t perfect we probably had some rough edges and maybe have to rethink things but you can quickly quantify the spend returned its value Mike what I’m doing in
13:43 value Mike what I’m doing in this situation too if if I have these people who really want it I this is what a perfect chance too to ask for the necessary resources and I’m going to talk to them about an ideal State and see where we’re going to go from there it’s like yeah I know everyone wants fabric well we’re going to need to increase our team and our skill level in X Y and Z I know our budget with previous tooling was this but if we really want this to work we’re going to want the budget of maybe the f64 the multiple licensing and talk about the ideal State especially when you have
14:13 ideal State especially when you have people who are interested and again then you can always backtrack from there and like well we want it but not that much so we’re we’ll get maybe something compromised but this is a great opportunity right off the bat to say you’re going to need if you want this to work out as well you’re thinking well you’re going to need people with these D certifications we’re going to want people in these in these scenarios you’re going to need this these licensing to really make this work and again that goes into goals as well
14:44 and again that goes into goals as well but they’re also looking to us probably as the experts in the room on the technology so I want to come in with an ideal State and then we’ll say okay what’s actually possible Seth you’ve been oddly quiet this morning so I I feel like you’re no I like I I like the I like the thoughts I like the ideas I also within here like the first thought was just ensuring that as we’re level setting expectations which was mentioned that at you’re establishing the expectations on
15:15 you’re establishing the expectations on both sides like who when as we go through here there’s a lot of fact finding there’s a lot of information and time that’s required from SME from people that need to engage and the right type of information so that as you’re going about attacking the first project or whatever there’s dependencies that the implementation team is going to have on organizational units and this can’t just be a free-for-all right like the people who
15:46 free-for-all right like the people who you require time from need to be outlined and and that needs to be agreed upon I think going into the the initial approaches of like launching into this and obviously like I think your emphasis on picking the right first project is the right one because you could do a million things you show show value right that should align to an organizational objective hopefully right organization would have an okr orsm
16:16 organization would have an okr orsm framework or something like that but especially if they don’t this one is super imperative because it’s like okay you guys need to change your mindset here right like we could do a million things what we’re investing in is solving this one that fits the model by which we can execute fast and has a really big return on reward yes right there could be more important things but if that’s a year-long project it’s not something you’re going to want to engage in right away right like you want want
16:46 in right away right like you want want to prove value now right yeah and an irony there a scenario one is like it’s the urgency of like we need to get going we need to start learning yeah and I also I also want to be clear we need to make it very clear that the people we’re bringing into fabric are not going to do it perfect or right or we’re not going to have probably all the right skills that we need day one and I think we need to be able to be clear about where I think there’s a thought came up to mind is there’s some skill alignment piece of this right which
17:18 alignment piece of this right which person can do what parts of fabric because we are talking about three different roles we’re talking about data engineering we’re talking about data modeling and we’re talking about report building that’s those are three I think could be the same person but sometimes are not sometimes you need different people to do those items differently and what is the existing skill the team are we do we have a whole bunch of SQL developers or do we already have a whole bunch of notebook developers that are already using a different system that’s a that’s a different language or different mentality of I see a
17:48 different mentality of I see a lot of times SQL developers show up to fabric and think they’re continually building things just the way they’ve always done in SQL but some of the parts of fabric change your mindset and give you lake houses and notebooks and so some of the mindset needs to open up a bit and we need to build some new patterns because the technology or the tools are now different too we don’t want to shove everything in a a SQL data warehouse inside Fabric and just say we’re call it dot like you could do it it has an empo it’s SQL but does that make sense for the long-term
18:18 does that make sense for the long-term project I’m not sure it does and that’s the catch with situation one I think there’s an irony here where a lot of people would perceive that situation one is the most positive it’s the one you can get started the most quick but it also is the one that has the most holes where miselon expectations not getting it right where you may get people again just because people want fabric that’s a broad idea of what that means just because you have Fabric and you’re doing everything the same if people don’t see
18:48 everything the same if people don’t see the fruits of that you can also have the biggest letdown from this as well out of all of them so to me there’s the there’s a lot of irony in situation one while sounds like great we already have people on board they already know what fabric is this will be easy no if you get the project wrong like you to your point if we work on the wrong project because we don’t have the right resources or we have not aligned our expectations on what success is going to look like you’re going to have a lot of upset people and three months or six months a lot of frustration where it could go the
19:18 lot of frustration where it could go the complete other way and this is why to me situation one is very catch because it’s so critical even though you have the most positive people in the beginning on one wanting it but getting it right is probably the most important here out of all the all the situations I’m going to read a little bit into the getting it right from Level setting expectations yeah not execution obviously execution you want to get you want to get yeah expectation setting and I think that is I agree the the biggest
19:50 I think that is I agree the the biggest challenge in something like this in where going back to Mike’s earlier comment of like like the the things you have to start first are defining and defining well milestones and pillars right like what the these are this is a like there are always opportunities for quick wins but as you’re going through
20:13 quick wins but as you’re going through establishing these things like what does this Milestone look like what are we accomplishing in this time frame there are dependencies on all that working and and a lot of things can get done in earlier Milestones right we can pick first project we can establ we can build a framework but the the one area that I think is pivotal to this is whoever is laying this out with the organization needs to tie the the
20:46 organization needs to tie the the additional burden of either headcount or training right to the Future Milestones right because if you if you if there like for instance if if you don’t have the bodies you need the bodies right if you have bodies and you want to retrain them you need to retrain them and there are going to be periods of time where there are there’s either that’s happening right away in the first Milestone like yep okay we’re opening
21:16 Milestone like yep okay we’re opening five heads whatever but you need to like be able to tie out what those heads are going to be doing or the people are going to be doing in this new ecosystem and the success of bringing on those people or ramp them up is dependent on whether or not you’re going to hit future Milestones now the reason you do that is not just in terms of timing right getting getting all of these things and launching the program and letting it take off and run it’s if
21:46 letting it take off and run it’s if there is push back in that there’s not enough budget then there are parts of an ideal road map that get cut out or that get reorganized to the end of the project or you’re flipping things through right and that’s why it’s so important because fair or not right like there can’t be an expectation that all this just gets done right and there always is predominantly like I have I already have a team of five it’s like
22:16 already have a team of five it’s like okay that’s great but you need a team of eight right I don’t want to do that okay well that’s fine too your road map just gets longer right like there’s there’s pros and cons to how fast you’re going to be accelerate and this is where that they want it now and they want it out quickly comes in because there’s a cost to to time right like Mike you you’ve always got this one locked in where it’s like the the pyramid like if if you’re if it’s fast it’s it’s you ramp up it costs the most right
22:47 know you ramp up it costs the most right if if it’s correct a little bit longer then you you can ease off on the co cost etc etc and I’ll say something just real quick there because you used a word that I literally wrote down a second before you or at the same time you’re writing it what’s critical in this is because you have so many interested heads and heads that are wanting to know status is your Milestones are so critical here and that’s going to be something that I would very much focus on is not just the main end goal but the Milestones along
23:18 main end goal but the Milestones along the way and keeping that communication because you have a lot of people who are invested you have a lot of people who again have the expectation for the whatever the end goal is or for this project so I am writing down the milestones and when we expect to achieve them and what we need to do that because that communication skill and it is a skill at this point in this project that I need to make sure that I am on top of and I need to be consistent of or you get that almost like the Yeah clean project management is is absolutely a
23:50 project management is is absolutely a must because like when all eyes are on the project everybody needs to know if the project is not going green like ultimately green like you can’t have a monthly update right like there there are regular updates of and into the various detailed levels like challenges and or what the result of those challenges or blockers are that impact the overall timelines because if you don’t get out in front of that there is nothing more frustrating to this
24:21 nothing more frustrating to this scenario where people get brought in at the last minute and they’re like what do you mean you’re not done what do you mean that first project is now delayed by a month there are big business impacts to you guys saying that you you were going to finish this bad like so communication is a key key thing yes yeah agree I do agree though I I don’t have any really any extra comments on these I think I’m I am trying to figure out what’s
24:51 am trying to figure out what’s the next situation so I we’ve talked a lot about this first situation right we’re going we want to get in we move quickly only other thing I can think about here is there are things your organization knows and this and again I’m maybe reading between the lines here a little bit if your organization already has a data culture or data engineering or things like those roles you may understand what that means if this is coming from more of the business side you probably won’t know what that looks like and you’ll be doing too much of the data engineering inside the
25:22 of the data engineering inside the semantic models you’ll be doing too much your models won’t be as fast or you’re not going to have efficient so one thing I’ll point out here as well I think it’s a pattern sometimes you just need to implement something to get the value out of it and then you can take a second pass on it later to make it more cost effective so you may take some not shortcuts but you’re going to you may take some initial builds of things where I just need to get this thing done so we can prove the value does it work does it add efficiency to our team and there
25:53 add efficiency to our team and there will probably be plans to say when we enhance it we need to take on some additional review time of is this the most efficient way we’re doing it the reason I’m saying this is because everything in fabric costs some amount of compute usage yeah there’s always a compute being applied to something so build quality is the other part of that pyramid it just came into my head in doing that there’s no reason why you can’t do things with data flows Gen 2 build things that you need to it’s got a
26:24 build things that you need to it’s got a UI great you can move very quickly do the data engineering you want in that experience however it’s not the most efficient way to do the data engineering inside the fabric environment you don’t know notebooks yet right that might not be a thing the team may not be comfortable with that yet that’s okay so what I’m doing right now with a lot of organizations is we’re working with skills that are already in the team and then we’re partnering with people who have additional skills and so this in this situation plan one I really recommend the skills assessment that you talked about earlier Seth I think is very important and it’s also understand
26:56 very important and it’s also understand understanding where you have the skills and where there are gaps because you may need to supplement for a period of time and bring on a partner that helps you understand the patterns that you need to learn as a team so that way later on you have the right patterns right or or ramp up the team faster right like there is if you find the right individual and that is key right true the the acceleration that they can bring to a team is astounding because it
27:26 to a team is astounding because it they’ll walk you through the thing explain all the thing as opposed to it being a discovery right it’s a joint joint learning process and I think I want to lean in a little bit to your question because a lot of the times in the super fast roll out there there is what you’re what you’re describing is increased Tech debt correct I’m GNA Implement and and this like goes back into a a question I was going to ask right as you were going into that what which was are there certain
27:58 what which was are there certain impementation patterns you were going to be using or following for a use case like this versus others and I would agree it’s almost you’re you’re getting it to work at the sacrifice of is it working as best as possible but that also has to be part of the road map like there has to be an understanding by the business that like speed it like at the direction of speed you have less quality and like more cost or whatever that that triangle is yeah because
28:28 that that triangle is yeah because you’re the value you’re going to get is going to come out and then we’re going to come back and refine things and we’re going to reduce cost and we’re going to make sure that the the longevity of this is what it needs to be for the the Enterprise or to your point is that mean we’re building it wrong or no it doesn’t but if if you build things in a methodical way in which we’re we’re validating and testing and doing cost controls and making sure that everything we’re implementing is like keyed and locked in that takes time
28:58 like keyed and locked in that takes time it does yeah yeah and I I’ll put my we’ll put my bow on situation one I’ll call it two two sentences success just to say like really the last things is I think the things that we covered today and if you’re listening man the critical to have your stakeholders aligned with the goals have the resources that you need in the communication regardless of the project because those are going to be what your challenges are what your barriers are so that’s that’s my bow on situation one I think so I think it’s
29:29 situation one I think so I think it’s pretty fair let’s move on to Situation Number two then give us a little bit of a round out Tommy what’s different in situation two and how are you how do you think we’re going to start tackling this one situation 2 you have stakeholders who are aware that fabric exists but you already have a system in place that works people think it works and it works fine so there’s not the same interest to one even get the ball rolling they don’t and there’s not a perceived value of what fabric can bring because we already have things at work I don’t know if we want to spend extra
29:59 I don’t know if we want to spend extra money or there’s this idea of an extra cost and there’s just not the interest to get us started so now we’re in a situation in our role here as the baker we’ll say as we need to prove the value of fabric with a organization who is open to it but is not pushing for it at
30:20 open to it but is not pushing for it at all and it will continue down the road if nothing changes so where do we start here so is a good this is a a good predicament I think to be in or I think this is a good scenario to talk through let me say not predicament let me this is a good scenario to think through because I think potentially there is I feel like this situ this situation comes from we already have powerbi we’ve already looked at some things or we have it may not be a p system it may be like another implementation of a
30:50 may be like another implementation of a click or something else and we’re we’re looking at a at an arms length and saying what does that solution look like should we should we really invest the time is it going to be worth our effort to go into that I’m going to lean on again our our talk around what are the main goals and objectives of the company you goals and objectives of the company what what is our main focus here I know what what is our main focus here I think also I would point out in scenario 2 I’d really align on what tools runs the business because I do think there are opportunities for companies that run
31:22 are opportunities for companies that run on Microsoft here more so than companies that run on other tooling I’ve seen some challenges with working with customers who are on the Google platform or have other office tools that they’re trying to use I think there’s only and my opinion here is I think there’s only two main horses in this in this race for office tools it’s either Microsoft or it’s the Google products I don’t see any other major company out there that’s producing like Excel words PowerPoints you could potentially not use Microsoft or Google and you could go buy a bunch of offthe shelf products like Miro or
31:53 of offthe shelf products like Miro or other things to work through your team to build things but those feel like for smaller Enterprises those don’t feel like larger organizations and distributions so if you are a Microsoft shop I think you should seriously consider Fabric and powerbi if you are an Azure shop if you build things in Azure this is I think a really good consideration and I think one of the things as a developer of someone who came from Azure already in scenario 2 I’ve built data flows Azure data
32:23 2 I’ve built data flows Azure data Factory pipelines I’ve built things in synaps I’ve built things in Blob storage the reason why I would push our organization more towards a fabric route is the collection the ease in which we could distribute and manage those artifacts for more of the business people I would feel like the situation here for me is thinking about our business team needs to get stuff done that we are capable we have the the skills we’re going to take the investment to teach people how to use
32:53 investment to teach people how to use more capabilities of fabric and we’re going to bring those maybe exist existing data engineering exercises we’re going to bring them into fabric it’s going to potentially give us one less cost two easier to manage because everything just works and talks to each other and there’s going to be less need to have a team that specializes in well how do I get this as your data Factory to talk to a blob storage do I need a key Vault do I not is there less like it just works inside fabric so there’s a a bit of security and and connection management
33:26 security and and connection management that I don’t need to deal with anymore and you can just use fabric to control it at the workspace level that’s my initial thoughts I don’t know what do you guys think the last Point teach people to do things in this environment strikes me as a very difficult one to to push and and it reminds me of a previous conversation we had more in the tech Bas where it’s like you’re not organizations aren’t going to invest
33:56 not organizations aren’t going to invest in an area if if it doesn’t if it hasn’t broken yet right that’s true and and what that point suggests is that your organization and how people are are generating data is really bad but they don’t know that right like that’s the scary part like you’re basically saying you don’t know what you don’t know we need to bring these folks into using know like
34:28 into using know like there are opportunities for us to create e efficiencies on valuable data sets that can be reused throughout the organization but if they’re not cognizant of that as an organization themselves right like what do you mean like Susan gives me my my numbers every day well yeah but did you numbers every day well yeah but did it takes Susan 24 hours every month know it takes Susan 24 hours every month to generate those numbers and that’s where you’re losing deficiencies no they don’t right do they know that everybody they’re hiring in all these business areas is doing the same thing
34:58 areas is doing the same thing they’re reaching out to somebody to generate a report to cble it together into an Excel file and the amount of wasted time throughout the organization is excessive every place is like that but at the same time this is one of the most challenging conversations to have to say there’s value in pursuing this thing because you can’t quantify it specifically right yes you just know it’s happening and why do we know it’s happening because these are the people we talk to every day right like we we are building efficiencies we are fixing
35:30 are building efficiencies we are fixing some of these processes but it’s only the ones that are really key to organizations so when you’re coming into a place that’s like yeah well what’s the value having a nebulous one like that it I found is extremely challenging to push through to get approval because there’s no hard concrete thing to it and it’s like well there is it’s just in this ether of behindth scenes stuff that you’ve never paid attention to so the
36:01 you’ve never paid attention to so the net benefits and results of that could equate to efficiency could equate to better decision- making could equate to reduced costs or better Revenue generating insights but how do I measure that and it’s funny because I I consider this this situation and I think Seth exactly what you’re saying from being internal and being consultant and it’s funny I’ve been brought into places where like convince our or but even internally this was something that I’m
36:32 internally this was something that I’m thinking about more of the plan of attack and that’s where I’m really focusing my time and I really love what you said Seth because what I’m starting off here in an organization is I’m looking under rocks because there is always a rock to look under that you can find something messy whether it is hey do it takes 24 hours to do this or did that your report is X Y and Z and the data is even wrong and I am putting together Discovery calls and what I’m doing is I am writing all this
37:02 what I’m doing is I am writing all this down to prove to talk to my stakeholder and I am showing the inefficiencies in the OR and where it’s critical look at Finance I found out look at marketing they are spending 30% more than they should because they don’t know that the other team’s also doing whatever whatever the situations are I am showcasing the ones that are going to be the most egregious and I I I almost have a guarantee I’ll find them like at any organization that’s the beautiful thing I I don’t disagree with you but at at
37:32 I I don’t disagree with you but at at what you’re suggesting requires executive or boss level approval to go to go to go say go correct go go do some go do some Discovery calls under the GU of something else and and no I think you something else and and no I think why I say that yeah because then know why I say that yeah because then you’re like going to someone’s territory no because people won’t tell you things things if they know you’re going to get replacing their stuff you can’t move their cheese and expect them to like
38:02 their cheese and expect them to like show up and be like oh hey hey Tommy look this is how I do it can you replace this entire 6 hour 4 Hour exercise I have with something that just takes a minute like even even even if this is even if the meeting is set up in terms of like efficiencies right or process driver like it can’t be that and that’s been one of the challenges I found is like I it’s very hard to pick under under when people have to like show you under
38:32 when people have to like show you under the rock what’s going on because many of the what we’re driving at in these conversations a lot is as an organization we can be much more efficient in how we pull these numbers together but that means employee one through 10 are doing is doing something extremely inefficient and needs to be taught a different way and they don’t know any better but they that that is a challenge absolutely to what is the job that they do on a daily basis and you could honestly you’re 100% I did write
39:03 could honestly you’re 100% I did write boss alignment because again if my butt if my boss has some of the dough and is holding a money bag I hope that I would have some ability to do this and going like we’re g to help but you’re right like this especially internally especially internally this becomes much harder unless people are lying where they’re frustrated too and I’ve been in both situations where someone’s like help me help my process because I was given it and we want to help it and there’s other people like Over My Dead Body are you coming in with our systems
39:33 Body are you coming in with our systems and our numbers and correct and I I’ve seen it both and yeah it’s GNA be hard to navigate but I I would still lean for this situation that I would want to start with at least trying to if I have relationships in the org that I’m going to try to lean on to find egregious ones to bring to the person who has the dough because it’s going to be very hard to say we need fabric for the sake of fabric so I agree with everything you said but if we’re
40:03 with everything you said but if we’re going to even if I’m going to convince my boss or my stakeholder the money bag to say can I get a license to pilot can we pilot something because that’s that’s the only place I see really starting here if you if you have someone an organization who is on the fence I need a pilot and if I’m going to prove the value I have to prove the value something that’s not working first
40:25 value something that’s not working first so I want to identify yes I agree with your comment there Tommy and I want to go back to Seth’s comment around like the identification of the value there’s probably walking into scenario number two you’re probably going to face a number of political wins against this initiative two things that come to mind one is that you can use Fabric or if you’re on the fence about something try and figure out what is the new initiative that the company is trying to accomplish and see if that initiative fits what powerbi is doing one
40:56 fits what powerbi is doing one initiative that I find that seems to be very res that resonates very well with companies is look we’re building a whole bunch of powerb reports we want to start sharing them with our customers we’re giving data we want to treat data as more of an asset in an organization that is an opportunity to put fabric in place because you need to start embedding things potentially in an app or external tools that take and I use this conversation a lot you already as an organization have a lot of really good reports that you’re using internally how are you going to start sharing them to
41:26 are you going to start sharing them to your customers how do you make them sticky to you by giving them the best data and data experience with your information MH that’s a value add to your customers you could even use that as a product upsale if your competitors don’t do this level of Rich reporting for your your customers use this as an opportunity so one you’re taking like okay look we’re not going to tackle all these internal inefficiencies but we’re looking for edge cases or things that we would want to build that will be good use cases for new projects so one would
41:57 use cases for new projects so one would that will will directly align to your company’s main objectives it will allow you to add value to the organization and you’re going to be able to put fabric in this scenario and say did this work are we liking this experience which I would argue if you’re coming from where you’ve built all these pieces individually you’re going to like the the the Microsoft Office business like it’s like the Microsoft Office for for bi right it’s all these tools that are just kind it’s all these tools that are just bolted together and they just work so of bolted together and they just work so that would be one thought here Seth your point around how do you go
42:28 your point around how do you go through the business and get that where is the most challenging Parts where do we see the inefficiencies coming from I guarantee talking to some smmes you’ll be able to find some of those areas well this this process takes a long time or these things are challenging but I think if you lean on the conversation of what data do you not have access to what are you missing try and use empathy as a way of tell me what’s hard what do you do that is just frustrating you well it’s really annoying to me when this system goes down and we can’t get this data and I have to wait a half a day to lean into
43:00 have to wait a half a day to lean into those conversations I think I think jumping into conversations where you letting people vent a bit about what the struggles are you can empathize that sounds annoying like help help me understand more what could we do better here how could this be more effective in solving your problem so I think that’s another area where I would say there’s weaknesses other things I would point out are weaknesses are when you see a lot of excel emails being mailed around where you see Heavy usage of lots of Excel files showing up on SharePoint Pages when you see a lot of
43:31 Pages when you see a lot of transformational effort being done by one person that hey if if Tommy leaves and he says I’m done here or he wins the lottery that thing he’s doing to make that data and clean those files and bring that stuff out do we have a replacement for that what does that look like should we automate some of this because that way Tommy isn’t the you because that way Tommy isn’t the when when Tommy gets a better paid know when when Tommy gets a better paid job or he wins the lottery he’s out what do we do we have to relearn his whole massive Excel sheet so anytime I’m
44:01 massive Excel sheet so anytime I’m seeing like really complex State Engineering being done inside Excel sheets to me that’s a point of weakness potentially for the business and so at least communica to leadership saying here’s areas where we’re heavily reliant on a single person or a single process we need to understand what that is and help protect the business so that we’re not losing that knowledge when that person moves on yeah I really like that idea and actually that would that would that resonates to me as far as
44:31 would that resonates to me as far as like how you would engage Tommy in your under the rock conversation is is hey we’re I’m going to meet with you to talk about data availability and access yeah right like hey walk me through how do you use data than new yorg like what are some of the things you’re how can I get you more why are you How Can I Ease that yeah oh yeah and i’ I’ve done a number of rollouts within companies looking at individual departments and that has been the problem the problem has been there’s so much work even just simple things like if you come in saying we’re going
45:01 like if you come in saying we’re going to solve problems I show into teams and just we all we did was learn power cury together and that made everything more easier or everything easier for the team and and there’s also this idea there are people in your organization that will be resistant to these new ways of doing things even though they already exist in the tool like I showed people power query and they’re like that’s not what I do I go in I copy the data I put it on this page and I go through and I manually clean all the data on this page and I said yes you can do that but watch me do it in this automated way boom I
45:33 me do it in this automated way boom I hit refresh and it’s done I said That’s The Power of what we’re doing here we want to build that capability in there and some people are still resistant to it you you might have to potentially hire in new people at some point they’ll have to move on because we want that is the challenge you’re going to run into but that’s part of the notes too if I have a good relationship with my boss like hey you said we’re going to meet with marketing but they’re not showing us any and we we have no insight to what they’re doing that’s part of my notes too and I’m not t marketing may not be
46:04 too and I’m not t marketing may not be your marketing may not be seeing there’s enough pain to your point but I understand too it’s not not every department is going to have the right open culture that we’re looking for right we need to be able to resonate with especially when we’re talking like we’re on the fence right I if marketing is acting that way I’m like what marketing is not our target audience that we’re not going there first let’s let’s talk to finance let’s talk to engineering do they get it right finding that right team to do the first project with I think will be immensely beneficial in this situation you you
46:35 beneficial in this situation you you don’t want to work with teams that are just so incredibly resistant politically right that you can’t make anything move forward and they’re not going to listen to you they’re going to just whine about how bad it is and it’s not right it doesn’t work and no let’s work with someone to say look we understand it will be a bumpy road let’s make it better together right these list back up here remember here the reason why we’ve been doing these calls or I’m having these conversations in the first place is I’m trying to convince just get a little budget to do a pilot for fabric
47:05 little budget to do a pilot for fabric so I’m also trying to find again something that can get the low most low hanging fruit I’m not just doing a discovery call for the sake of it and that’s I think again t bow tying situation to my my plan of attack is really honing in on a team that has people that wants change that I can prove an incredible value in a short amount of time AG we’ve seen that with powerbi in terms of like just building a model and what that changes and I think a easy cases again I’m
47:37 and I think a easy cases again I’m looking low hanging fruit for like a lake house and just what that change can bring so yeah I think I think my final thoughts would be Mike love your idea data availability and access like to just do Discovery across to any team if this is a cart launch thing other things that have come up to me throughout this conversation to needle into to the things that could drive some of this initiative would be are there key numbers that we always have delays on that that are decision- making numbers like we we have to wait a week
48:08 numbers like we we have to wait a week every time we request them or something like that is there do we have clear visibility on our cost control centers like across the organization is there like are we plugged into the commercial team are like are there Revenue generating opportunities we don’t like we could assist that team in going and driving for their numbers and then purely from a techstack perspective if we assume the organization is already doing data initiatives right or has platforms that it builds on I think another powerful work course in here would be hey there’s this new project
48:39 would be hey there’s this new project coming up let’s let’s compare let’s have the team work on like one teamwork on that and and we’ll build this in Fabric and I guarantee you well when fit speed wise yeah so speed to delivery yeah right sometimes is extremely important I like that so slow follower huh okay do I need do I need this do I no you probably don’t just keep doing what you’re doing it’s fine okay we’re done move on yeah so we’ll see you in
49:11 done move on yeah so we’ll see you in five years we’ll see you in five years when you’re really behind and then you’ll you’ll have to do it because it’ll be so expensive well one okay let’s just let’s State situation number three right what is fabric I have a p i have a process I have things I have some solid data culture why am I looking at using it and I think this is to me this last scenario here is the solid data culture right do you already have processes and people and Engineering teams that are established that are doing things and you may not need fabric
49:43 doing things and you may not need fabric for what you’re doing you may have established a really good pattern in data bricks you may be using lak houses just fine you may be using Azure data Lake Gen 2 like those things could all all be okay but I think what you’re looking at is you’re trying to understand is there a portion of your business again going back to our situation number two a little bit right are there are there areas where we’re having struggles we’re having issues with we can’t deliver this data to these people in an efficient way and I think to me again I’m looking at number three
50:13 to me again I’m looking at number three saying how are you Distributing this data externally the the progression I see in many companies is figure out powerbi business finds value produces reporting and and reliable insights on that and then the company shifts its focus from internal reporting to external let’s go external with these
50:32 external let’s go external with these reports let’s add value because the story is doesn’t matter who you are everyone’s talking about data is like an oil we have to use it it’s a strategic asset all these buzzwords around this data thing and now more organizations are trying to more easily get to this place where they’re giving the information to other people so they can make customers happy with their products here’s where the adoption and this is harder in situation three than I think any of the others and honestly than
51:02 any of the others and honestly than anything that we’ve been used to with powerbi adoption my first lean leaning from a a plan of attack was ground up however we don’t have that same ability with fabric that we did with powerbi in terms of we have to get a few people involved in order to even try this from a groundup if I want a trial well hopefully my it has enabled a trial for
51:32 hopefully my it has enabled a trial for fabric and if I even have that capability do I have all the features available to me to prove any value from people are like where are we going to go into fabric like I don’t see the use case or I’m not even aware it exists compared to the story with powerbi where it was just download powerbi desktop show people what you can do those Transformations no one will be the wise you can do it on your own personal computer you can do it with a Mac if you have a Windows VM
52:02 Mac if you have a Windows VM that’s not the case with fabric where it’s much harder to have a ground up or user-based story here without the r necessary resources involved so there’s a lot more barriers here for situation three than any of the others I think you’re going to need something bigger to make this push this conversation forward right is fabric going to be easier than your current solution is it going to be faster to load data than you than your current solution and will it cost less I
52:32 current solution and will it cost less I think situation three here is is more of a cost play honestly go ahead Seth I I think you’re you’re also looking for improvements right this this if you’re especially if you’re already well established like obviously can can you use Fabric in in conjunction with your existing platforms what are the and this is where I think the enhanced features or the drive that will increase the value internally for business teams like if you want to shift some of this or you
53:02 you want to shift some of this or you have a ton of smees or like that that you can engage and and you can sell this idea of a much better framework by which people get certified data and share and use within your organization like those are the paths where like there might be value or there there there could potentially be value for folks to shift into a different platform but it but it is a lot harder it’s probably going to be much more stringent slower like a lot of R& D lot of like checks and balances on cost
53:34 lot of like checks and balances on cost control and making sure that things are working the way you’d expect them to or it’s a brand new initiative and you’re you’re comparing your existing platform to fabric and that’s yeah and that’s exactly where I was goingon to go I was writing down waiting for opportunity this is the one probably the mo by far the most you’re going to have to wait for the right opportunity to to have the communication whether it’s slides or a demo to those Kei stakeholders or to that team but this is not one I think
54:04 that team but this is not one I think you could go in gun to Blazing going I found inefficiencies in the OR here’s this thing called fabric you’re really waiting here for even the SL the you waiting here for even the SL the the sliver of hey what other tools know the sliver of hey what other tools are out there we’re doing this can we look into this and this is where it becomes a great opportunity but by far compared to the other two this is going to be I don’t want to say impossible but this is very very difficult if you’re going to try to push this through as project I I I would agree maybe a
54:36 project I I I would agree maybe a little less so for organizations that have already like pushed out powerbi as the reporting tool this is near impossible probably if you’ve already done like if you have a wellestablished data culture and you’re you’ve already trained Folks up on a reporting tool that they get value from you’re almost starting over from from that right just probably nonstarter yeah or it’s yeah the the only thing I could only other moment here I could point out is I’ve seen two observations in companies that
55:06 seen two observations in companies that seem to push you more towards a fabric experience one is a disunified experience between dead engineering and Reporting so when I have when I have engineering tools that do not very easily connect and talk to powerbi that’s a problem because things fall over stuff doesn’t run people are scrambling to fix pieces of code that didn’t work correctly right so the idea that there’s a single system that removes 16 or 17 or seven tools and we
55:36 removes 16 or 17 or seven tools and we can go down to one tool right that’s a that’s a better story right so the idea of and the reason I like this story is because this was this is a lot of other Azure based products that are just being bolted together and that’s the Brilliance of this the other thing I’m thinking here is there’s maybe a strategic move here that’s going to try you push you in a Direction C the Strategic move being every organization is talking about we need AI we need Advanced analytics we need all the where’s our data scientist what are they doing how are they finding insights in
56:07 doing how are they finding insights in our data to provide data back to the business about what they need to me that’s another opportunity here what do you want to start doing in advanced analytics and what tooling do you need to acquire or Buy in order to do those things yeah you potentially will be having by using fabric you may already have the things that you need step in use notebooks do Advanced analytics and by the way you’ve been collecting data into these Lakehouse things for whatever weeks years I don’t know now the data is all in one place
56:38 know now the data is all in one place it’s much easier to access to do those Advanced Analytical things that’s my final yeah you’re but you’re those that’s speaking to like that the organization has some challenges it wants to work outre engine and I would 100% agree this would be a prime candidate to say hey we can simplify a ton of look at it yeah agree that I I I want to just quickly harp on that because I know we’re getting your time but this is really important to this situation where rather than fabric being the thing it’s a thing in the organization and being okay with
57:09 in the organization and being okay with that where it’s going to have we’re going to limit the features that we’re going to put for fabric because to your point we already have tentacles and a ton of other places and processes in a ton of other places so maybe it’s just for a few departments I I like what you said the disconnected approach here because this probably works actually really well with fabric and not a way we think about a Microsoft business intelligence tool in our previous lives powerbi like you have to just do powerbi
57:39 powerbi like you have to just do powerbi you’re not going to do powerbi and Tableau or powerbi and click that doesn’t make sense no you’re gonna kind doesn’t make sense no you’re gonna right but this is also like every of right but this is also like every time we argue like I I know if this is the point you’re making Tommy but maybe I’m jumping the gun here a bit I think I think there’s a pattern the more more different tools or different companies you work with the more the the entire solution will cost money right to an extent yeah right right because if I if I’m going to just if I’m going to just pick powerbi and then I need to also add
58:09 pick powerbi and then I need to also add Tableau and I also need to add click the more tools we bring to the the more different companies each company wants to maximize their profit on their tool right so you have to understand like every company is trying to charge what value do they add and what’s the maxim amount of money they can charge to get you to add to use that thing but if if I can centralize it into one tool I have an opportunity to do things at a more efficient cost but I’m making the argument that you almost like slow relase fabric it’s this is not a fast relase version of the Microsoft of data
58:39 relase version of the Microsoft of data but that’s the hardest thing I would like I guess one of my closing thought would be this regardless of the scenario this is a this is a technology it needs to align to solving the right business problem in the right environment that makes the business better agree don’t ever push a technology just because it’s the one you like or no in every org right find find the right place find the right orc and fabric is a fantastic ecosystem that can bring a lot of business value for the
59:11 bring a lot of business value for the right business right like if you’re not even a Microsoft shop holy cow like why like not saying don’t try to start but like it don’t lead I should have just kept it with a final thought don’t lead with it as a technology that’s why we need to move into it I think all of our conversation today has been around what is the business value how do you approach and make sure that we’re aligned to solving the business problems because at the end of the day the business in by by and large does not care about the technologies that you’re using to solve
59:41 technologies that you’re using to solve these problems agree all right with that we’ll we’ll give it a a wrap here thank you very much for listening to the podcast we appreciate your ears I hope this was an engaging conversation maybe one of these scenarios fits some part of your organization hopefully that helps out we ask if you like this podcast you thought it was good please let it recommend it to somebody else and let somebody else know we don’t do any advertising with this it’s all about word of mouth so if you don’t mind please let somebody else know you like this podcast Tommy where else can you find the podcast you can find us in apple Spotify or wherever you get your
60:11 apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcast make sure to subscribe and leave a rating it helps us out a ton do you have a question an idea or topic that you want us to talk about in a future episode head over to power. podcast leave your name and a great question finally join us live every Tuesday and Thursday a. m. Central and join the conversation on all power. tips social media channels thank you and we’ll see you next time [Music]
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