Business Alignment & Power BI / Fabric – Ep. 275

Most analytics programs don’t fail because the tools are missing—they fail because the work is disconnected from the decisions the business is trying to make. If your backlog is “whatever the loudest stakeholder asked for last,” you don’t have an adoption plan—you have whiplash.

In Episode 275, Mike, Tommy, and Seth walk through business alignment as a core pillar of the Microsoft Fabric adoption roadmap: how to tie your Power BI/Fabric work to measurable outcomes, clarify decision rights, and create a repeatable process for setting priorities (without killing self-service).

News & Announcements

• Microsoft Fabric adoption roadmap: Business alignment — A practical checklist of what “alignment” looks like: shared goals, requirements that map to outcomes, an engaged executive sponsor, and a governance strategy that balances enablement with risk.
• Submit a topic idea (Explicit Measures Podcast) — Send the crew a real scenario (or a messy situation) you want them to unpack on a future episode.
• PowerBI.tips Podcast — Browse the full back catalog and subscribe so you don’t miss new episodes.
• Power BI Theme Generator (Tips+) — Generate consistent report themes quickly (especially useful when you’re scaling a BI program across multiple teams).
• Mike Carlo (LinkedIn) — Follow Mike for hands-on Fabric and Power BI implementation lessons.
• Seth Bauer (LinkedIn) — Follow Seth for engineering and platform ops perspectives on analytics delivery.
• Tommy Puglia (LinkedIn) — Follow Tommy for analytics patterns, adoption advice, and community content.

Main Discussion

When the team says “business alignment,” they’re not talking about a slide deck—they’re talking about the concrete behaviors that keep your platform work pointed at the right problems: who sets priorities, how requests get shaped into outcomes, and how you decide what not to build.

Key takeaways:

• Start with decisions, not dashboards: if you can’t name the decision a report supports, you’re probably optimizing for vanity metrics instead of outcomes.
• Make priorities visible and repeatable: alignment improves when there’s a regular cadence for intake, triage, and trade-offs (so every request isn’t an emergency).
• Define ownership and decision rights: clarify who owns data domains, who owns semantic models, and who approves changes—otherwise every “alignment” conversation turns into a debate.
• Balance enablement with guardrails: self-service works best when the organization provides curated models, naming conventions, and guidance—while still letting teams move fast.
• Treat Fabric/Power BI work like product delivery: roadmaps, versioning, and release discipline matter (dev/test/prod, validation steps, and clear promotion paths).
• Use governance to reduce friction (not add it): governance should make it easier to do the right thing by default, and harder to create unmanaged copies and conflicting definitions.
• Keep aligning as the business changes: goals shift, org charts shift, and the platform evolves—alignment is a living process that needs periodic re-checks.

Looking Forward

Pick one alignment mechanism you can operationalize this month (a simple intake/prioritization cadence or a shared roadmap) and use it to turn “strategy” into consistent delivery.

Episode Transcript

0:28 good morning and welcome back to the explicit measures podcast with Tommy Seth and Mike today’s topic oh wait a minute will be right after Seth gives an intro Happy Tuesday there it is all right with that we can begin today’s main topic we’ll be talking through some pieces of the Microsoft fabric adoption road map walking through around business alignment is a good topic I think there’s been a lot of conversation

0:59 there’s been a lot of conversation around this one for those who are listening live we’re starting a little bit early schedules have gotten chaotic so we’re just adjusting slightly here but you can jump back to the beginning and start watching a little earlier so sorry we’re starting a little bit early today just switching things up a bit all right any announcements or news let’s let’s transition to some news things anyone have anything going on in the P Community that’s or things you’re learning I have I have one to bring to the table if you guys want to start with mine I’m really intrigued to see what

1:29 mine I’m really intrigued to see what your is because you were mentioning a bit about it sounds sounds frustrating all right so in L of Microsoft’s recently released material around how to use git G integration lake houses build all the things right so there’s there’s bronze silver gold lake houses Microsoft really has been mute on this topic this whole time like what do you do what are the best practices here they seem to have jumped on The Medallion architecture and so in doing that

1:59 architecture and so in doing that there’s a couple articles out there that describe how do you use git integration and how does that git integration work with your powerbi workspaces well in going a little bit deeper with testing some of this I was trying to I’m trying to rationalize in my head how do I get this lake house to move from Dev to test to prod are there definitions that go with it are there shortcuts that go along for the ride like how does this work so as I was testing some things by using a deployment Pipeline on top of a fabric a fabric workspace you get this really beautiful

2:31 workspace you get this really beautiful semantic model that appears well semantic models the default ones anyways on top of the Lakehouse they do not get deployed with each environment so you can move a Lakehouse from Dev to test but you cannot move or you do not even see in the list the semantic model that lives on top of the of the lake housee now Tommy and I been playing around with this a little bit in learn fabric you can make relationships you can make some measures so so you can you can add some things into that default

3:02 can add some things into that default semantic semantic model but it it appears anything that is direct like enabled from what I understand is something you cannot move with the deployment pipelines I have like 25 questions and we’ll this into three I feel like this is a major Miss I’m guessing this is eventually going to get here but this is one thing I really like about a lake house right now is this whole direct Lake experience if can’t move it between different environments and have it rebind and have

3:32 environments and have it rebind and have those definitions moved between Dev test and prod this really defeats the whole purpose of the deployment pipeline anyways I don’t want to move just reports through the pieces without having the model go with it I’m totally lost on why this is not finished out yet okay so give me a little more context here if I the default data set you said or is it any data set off the lake house any direct lake lake any direct lake or any data sets built in the service do not appear in inside the deployment pipelines what if I created an Tabo

4:02 pipelines what if I created an Tabo editor can’t see it seems like the only thing that goes along for the ride in the deployment pipelines is a PBX so if you can build a PBX of it you can use that to go between Dev test and prod which I’m sorely disappointed because I want to use direct like on stuff and I can’t do it if I’m using a pipeline it doesn’t even make sense okay one other thing then if I create a PBR or if I get the definition in desktop it’s import does that go through import again it

4:34 does that go through import again it sounds it’s really import yeah so my understanding right now is if you have a powerbi desktop file even if it’s a pbir or pbix or pbip file when it gets published to the service if you’re publishing from desktop desktop will take that pbip or R file bundle it turn it into a PBX file and then publish it now Tommy I think what you’re asking you asked a question around the PB file that’s a little bit more that’s after you’ve linked

5:06 more that’s after you’ve linked the a workspace to a repo right so in the repo you’ll now see there’s a thin report called the pbir which is just the definition of the report and you can modify those it’s it’s in a format that you can you can modify I think if you’ve already linked something to a workspace I believe those will carry through however I did observe observe I made a get repo of our learn fabric workspace we had linked to get and then

5:36 workspace we had linked to get and then I tried to redeploy it to a blank workspace that had nothing in it and I had errors all over the place the wasn’t working the notebooks were not syncing correctly it was putting the artifacts inside the workspace but nothing was like it all said it all looked like it was like uncommitted files even after I just added the repo right to the list I was like what the heck’s going on here so even just adding a git Branch to a re to a workspace seemed to change all the

6:07 a workspace seemed to change all the files for some reason I don’t know why and this is the same quam I had a few weeks ago I realized that creating something in table editor going in if that’s also synced to a git repo I’ve seen translation issues or it tries to transform or modify the file if you had a pbip or PBR tries to translate it I would have definition options where I could not open up the file on desktop even though I made no modifications yeah so I feel right now

6:37 modifications yeah so I feel right now that the get repo solution is not really what it looks like a get repo it acts like one but I don’t know if the full back end is fully what you we expect to be a get repo because those problems you should theoretically easily publish into a workspace a new workspace other artifacts from another G Rap B I’m and I’m going to question this one slightly because I’m not sure if I remember exactly the details in this one maybe

7:07 exactly the details in this one maybe chat you can filming in here as well in struggling with some of these pieces is the git integration still in preview is that is that something that’s still a preview feature even though that fabric has been released and I don’t know if I have my fingers on the I believe there’s even though we’ve released fabric to General availability I believe there are certain aspects of fabric that are still in preview yeah maybe get is one of them cuz it’s definitely rough right now and

7:38 cuz it’s definitely rough right now and I’m having a hard time really really what I want it to do what I think it should be doing right now it should be just easily moving these files between environments I should be able to see all my semantic models it says they’re sinking but they don’t come between the different environments it’s just it needs to be refined more I just ripped through the technical doc yeah it’s is it in preview still get get integration is still in preview so this is probably why this feels so raw because it just is such a

8:09 feels so raw because it just is such a it felt like it came with fabric like yay it’s here and it’s still getting refined Microsoft if you’re listening bring back the old school parenthesis previews and your features that used to Fe for all the old updates in powerbi desktop it always came with preview whether it was on the blog article or something times on the feature itself it would always some there yeah it doesn’t show me in the get repos though in fabric it doesn’t say oh what you’re about to do is completely in preview

8:40 about to do is completely in preview which could mess up some of your artifacts beware be wary it’s only toess point in the technical documentation it does say that if you go to the get integration inside. com it does say get integration quote brackets preview okay then that that’s that’s on me then but that’s frustrating you owe me a steak din or now now you got to bet it my friend you you literally the stakes on the table beforehand this is literally table Stakes table Stakes actual table Stakes

9:10 Stakes table Stakes actual table Stakes yeah the I’m I’m having trouble too with the deployment pipelines that the probably the most important artifact in a workspace is probably your semantic model I was GNA say what is the most important artifact it is 100% your your semantic model like Ah that’s that’s what you really want to have working whether you’re doing this or not and the other thing I found out and again I don’t think this is I’m still trying to figure out if this is really a real thing or not if you build a semantic

9:40 thing or not if you build a semantic model on top of a lake house so you building your own semantic model so you’re you’re able to use direct Lake when you do something like that if you use that you can’t download the file no it stays in the service yeah now you can connect to it with an xmla endpoint you can script out the things that are in it but you’re not going to be able to it doesn’t and that and that semantic model is does not appear in the deployment pipeline you cannot get it more importantly as soon as you connect to

10:11 importantly as soon as you connect to the xmla endpoint in a default which I do not do you cannot edit it on the web anymore so if you have any translation issues if anything were to occur where you need to modify it in the web tablet editor is has that integration but not 100% You’ve Lost That so I don’t personally I’ve refrained from touching the default data set and I’m always creating my own semantic model because it just makes more sense if something were to happen I can create a new one

10:41 were to happen I can create a new one it’s a pain in the Arsenal to create yeah in the Arsenal to create a web create a semantic model in the web to try to recreate measures sorry that’s another thing but that that doesn’t pass through which is the again the most vital part a powerbi dare I say is the

11:01 vital part a powerbi dare I say is the model is the model anyways Seth you’ve been smirking over there this entire time so curious your thoughts banter or or just enjoying banter okay yeah the the preview of things right just there’s some chat going around on what that means yeah it’s it’s it just means you’re get ready for workarounds or ways to get things I think I think the challenge here obviously is one not one not

11:34 here obviously is one not one not only one of confusion because there are so many different services and so many different Hooks and so many different ways to do things that fabric is trying to pull together and for the most part I think it’s is doing pretty well which is good because it’s GA right but like all the hooks into it the things that you would expect to work the really important Keys like there’s a lot that goes on here that I think it causes confusion Andor we have expectations that it

12:06 we have expectations that it is going to work like you’re saying Mike you forget that are there are components or hooks or new things that they’ve launched with this on one particular part that aren’t fully integrated across the whole ecosystem yet yes and and and in reality like one of the biggest ones that comes to mind that I was is is the one security stuff too right like we’re we’re still in that mode where great it’s GA but without that component there’s a lot of this

12:37 that component there’s a lot of this that you still got to figure out there’s manual workarounds there’s way to imp apply this like I was just watching Adam sexon video a couple days ago that he released where it’s oh you can you can apply security but you’re instantly in the realm of like SQL code right buying rolls I’m doing RLS or column mobile security different it’s like okay but like that is a very specific use case I need to go find your video in order to understand it and you video in order to understand it and Implement it’s going to it’s just

13:07 know Implement it’s going to it’s just going to hit hinder I think user adoption until those things really light up and it’s very upfront in people’s faces of like if I’m going to go implement this as a solution in my Enterprise or for people across the board that Simplicity is where you get a lot of that traction and just we’re not there yet but it’s okay okay I think the road map has it in place that it’s in it’s it’s on the way or we’re we’re talking through some of the preview things that

13:37 through some of the preview things that still aren’t working yet yeah I think that’s just going to be the way it’s that’s just the way it’s going to be for a while right it’s the things you’re getting with fabric has always been a lot more it technical backend system type things and that’s that’s how it’s been and so it for Microsoft to really T the you so it for Microsoft to really T the the advantage of where this really know the advantage of where this really goes and and I really do think the advantage of this is really more towards the business user because the it

14:07 the business user because the it organization already has all the tools their disposal they have key VA they have U ADF they have all these other tools that have been built long time ago and work really well they’re great so is this a compelling enough story move for me to initiate a move probably not can you use pieces of it now to help you build some certain things yeah it’d be good but I think it’s up to the MVPs right now to really like figure out what of the features are really

14:37 out what of the features are really workable and which ones are not yeah and that’s that’s where I struggle a little bit with the conversation that we have where it’s it’s current state right like yes and like I I am all in on the the end goal right that where we want to be but the the The Struggle Bus points for me right are what is the intent of fabric well if to your point if we already have all the Enterprise tools

15:08 already have all the Enterprise tools for the Enterprise people and we already had the business tool for the business people and now we’re integrating the system because we’re going to enable the business to do more it it becomes a lot harder harder to yes like walk around or instantly dip in and say oh yeah you can totally solve this here’s what you do you need to go like understand this code that you’ve never written before in your life and this is the context that you need to

15:38 this is the context that you need to understand that you’re applying security around and that falls apart pretty quickly in my mind right and that’s the challenge I think where that that I have with fabric as it stands is like I love the ecosystem that’s being built these are tool sets that I’m familiar with on the Enterprise side in the back end but if this is a tool for everybody or to mix teams together are we just bringing teams together right or is it the pathway for business users to learn

16:08 the pathway for business users to learn more about today and maybe it’s a balance of both but all I’m saying is like there’s still this shelf I think that’s pretty hard around like the technical technical parts of it the data engineering parts of it that are going to be struggle points for the business that need to erode over time here as quickly as possible so that you’re your opening up that ecosystem to a larger audience because right now that’s I think the friction point and honestly on the same point if what’s Microsoft’s Fabric’s biggest toting point it’s an

16:38 Fabric’s biggest toting point it’s an endtoend endtoend solution you can’t introduce pieces of it that work and other pieces that don’t like the get integration or other bugs that we’ve seen without having some risk to adoption if powerbi was introduced and we’re like oh the power query part has some bugs by the way even though it’s an endtoend analytic solution there would be a lot harder to have that adoption like oh by the way when you load data and you create a relationship it may and may error out that didn’t occur of

17:09 may error out that didn’t occur of course there were obviously some bugs but right now to assess Point Microsoft fabric has introduced an end to-end solution from the products in one area however right now like you said Mike we as MVPs are having to go through and we’re like identifying and this to go through and say hey this is not working but that’s from a business user to go through where they’re not going to have I don’t want to say the slightest clue but they’re gonna have

17:40 clue but they’re gonna have just assume that everything is working and like oh I can create this Lakehouse and oh there’s git I know git I can put this all together without understanding how it’s supposed to work together because again it’s a really easy user interface with a very complicated back end and I think that’s that’s that is the Mantra by which they’re trying to use they’re trying to make it a I think this is a direct response to hey we tried to give you Azure synapse right no one was really dropping in and

18:10 no one was really dropping in and adopting it it wasn’t becoming That central place for where data things happen let’s everything that touches parbi turns to Gold let’s just bolt it on to parbi and so I think I think the direction here has been been good the the great Brilliance here was Microsoft actually adopting a good standard Delta tables was genius that that that what needed to happen in order to stay relevant and competitive with all the other big cloud technology tools out there right now everything’s

18:40 tools out there right now everything’s doing it yeah I do I do align with Tommy your comment right where consistently all the challenges that I hear about run into with fabric I I try to put in the context of where was my enthusiasm for those same challenges in power because there were a lot there were a lot of workarounds that we were passionately pushing out the door as far as like oh yeah this is how you do that here here oh if you can’t get that visualization work here’s what you do

19:13 visualization work here’s what you do I I and and I I think the same applies for fabric in some cases where oh yeah there’s totally a workaround right here here’s the things you do it it just has a propensity some of these question answers to dive deep into technical where business users are not going to know right so I think where we’re at is like like the the platform probably is going to be a merge point of two teams right where te very

19:43 point of two teams right where te very technical users can build Solutions and business users will pick up the artifacts that they’re building but I I think it’s going to be a a bit longer before the business starts to Traverse backwards into some of the those artifacts that maybe we were ambitiously thinking was going to happen pretty quickly just because because of some of these like challenges around like there’s not a simple user interface right like the minute I’m dropping in SQL warehouse and applying code for permissioning like you’re you’re out of

20:13 permissioning like you’re you’re out of bounds of the business user pretty pretty quickly let alone I don’t want him doing it anyway right right but I I I digress it’s it’s it’s the same equilibrium right like new things we’re smashing a lot of things together and we’ll we’ll see you on the other side it’s going to take some time to work out the bugs get it all figured out so I out so there’s parts of fabric that I’m mean there’s parts of fabric that I’m thinking are production ready there’s other parts of fabric that are not production ready and I would not

20:43 production ready and I would not recommend it yet at this point so the last thing I’ll say is I cannot wait for all this I want to use all of this and I some of the ideas here with being able to use git already has been awesome to be able to push that to see the changes what I’ve been able to do with some of the lak houses and those Solutions has been awesome so I cannot wait for this to be my end to end solution this is a better solution than what I’ve had in the past for a lot of projects but like I said I think

21:15 projects but like I said I think we’re still getting there so in the meantime we can talk about strategies and ways in which we can plan our adoption of of fabric and ironically enough today we’re going to be talking about the new changes or the new technical articles around Microsoft fabric adoption roadmap right yeah today is business alignment I think this is I think this is a really good one so jumping into more business alignment and this this is a let me pull the article out here

21:46 is a let me pull the article out here I’ll put it in the chat window as well for those who are following along this is the article for today business alignment we’re going to be walking through aligning your business

21:56 through aligning your business direction to where you’re going to go directionally and this and this makes total sense with fabric right two teams coming together figuring out what you’re trying to do who’s going to own what what responsibilities are going to happen where are there gaps in your data culture on how you roll and and Lead this because Tommy’s heard this all the time hey we’re here and we’re going to do self-service can you describe for me what self-service is well we’re going to build reports for you and you request them and we’ll just give you the reports and you can go load them when you want

22:27 and you can go load them when you want not sure that’s quite self-service how I would Define it so I definitely think there’s there’s level setting and defining things here as well getting everyone on the same page in the same terminology honestly a big this article to to me I want it to be part of the hard skills of a powerbi analyst or at least a director bi but really anyone who considers themselves a champion everything in this article is to me Mission critical if you are an analyst

22:58 Mission critical if you are an analyst Mission critical if you want to see powerbi adoption at your organization just as important as learning Dax and being expert in Dax and semantic models you have you have to be able to take what the organization is doing what your teams and departments are doing communicating with them listening to them and aligning that together none of your technical skills matter without what’s really in the content of this article this this article I think is going to boil down to and again reading

23:29 going to boil down to and again reading through this one I think it’s really going to Bo boil down to three things it’s going to be the people it’s going to be about your process it’s going to be the technology like we’ve been saying this a lot and it and you people add things to this and other aspects of that those those three items it really does work out to these three pieces focusing on these three pieces I think will get you a long way have you guys seen in organizations that have adopted powerbi or have a bi let’s say a centralized bi

24:00 bi let’s say a centralized bi team more often than not the communication with other departments or is it still where bi is still considered part of it and I’ll give a little context here for the users reading the article a large portion of this article is the ability for bi teams Champions or just analysts to communicate listen have consistent communication with with departments teams and organizations on what are

24:30 teams and organizations on what are their goals what is that team or sales team or Department trying to achieve or can how can we align with what you’re doing from a data strategy point of view and to me the maturity levels when you think about the first stage of powerbi at organization is we will build reports for you you will request a report I will build a report that is the function and role this dives into really more that intimate relationship that I think

25:00 intimate relationship that I think business intelligence is meant to have with the organization where are you struggling what is the business trying to do don’t think data what is your team or Department trying to do so I’ll I’ll ask the question with that context are you seeing that Evolution where that’s the standard of that intimate relationship with teams and departments or do you think we’re still struggling to get to that point at most organizations I’ve observed a number every organization has their own data culture already so depending on

25:31 data culture already so depending on where you’re at data culturally inside your company I see a couple different behaviors appearing one behavior is the business tries to come in and command ownership of it powerbi is mine I make reports we’re going to come in we need control of this it’s not going fast enough so business comes in and tries to manhandle the solution and what I find from that is it works to a point and at some point it gets overwhelming

26:01 and at some point it gets overwhelming or the technical challenges increase and what happens is the purchase capacity the pro users run out you’re starting to go after premium you start looking for other things it’s not designed in an optimal way so now yes the business can come in and totally build what they want to build but unless they have the technical chops or they’re working on their own people to build the technical chops they need in order to use the the tool effectively they they want wind up over spending and what happens is they begin to go pull technical people from

26:33 begin to go pull technical people from the it organization to help them out I’ve seen this happen a number of times I think it’s a fairly common pattern and then what happens now is the business gets overwhelmed they understand we do need some it technical support here and then the business potentially wants to even give back portions of this like hey it can you just give us better access to our models hey can you just make tables of stuff that we can can connect to through our powerbi side so there’s there’s more of a try to be a handshake after the fact

27:03 a try to be a handshake after the fact like well okay we do we do need technical people from both sides of the team or hey it can you just make the model and maintain them we’ll we’ll build reports on top of them we’ll tell you what the needs are so that’s something I’ve seen I’ve seen other organizations that are very centrally controlled and it does everything the the the company has not taken time to educate data culture into the company analytics thinking through things so what happens is we

27:33 through things so what happens is we have people coming in making massive dumps of data so harbi is trying to be or the tools that are existing are data dump tools hey you pick these columns you pick these tables from these tables it just dumps you out of file and then it’s on your own to go figure out how to do it on your own and that’s as much quote unquote self-service as they’re willing to provide I will provide to you a system by which you can get out your data now I find when when I see that

28:03 data now I find when when I see that there is a large amount of mistrust with the data either data’s com in wrong or people don’t trust the data that’s coming to them so there’s there’s I think there’s a culture shift there around can I even trust the quality of the data no therefore I will just dump out large tables those are the two main behaviors that I think I’ve observed there’s probably many more but those are the two that I’ve observed that I’ve seen is that anything that you’ve behaviors you’ve observed well yeah In terms of teams communicating I mean in terms of teams communicating I think in every organization yes they’re

28:34 think in every organization yes they’re they’re they’re communicating it it’s just how right and and I think likee you’re you’re implying some of the things that some of the points that I think about slightly differently but what what this speaks to is like if you have teams that are within their role right and by role it’s defined they’re part of the it group and their goal is to build the warehouse and that’s what they do and if and we built

29:04 that’s what they do and if and we built this thing and and their levels of Engagement with the business are are defined by that objective of the organization and that’s that’s great that’s fine but it creates challenges lots of them and then sometimes it becomes much more of a technical conversation as opposed to the business convers the business conversation the business problems that we’re solving and that’s where I think organizations over time with some of the bus business intelligence strategies have become frustrated and said yeah okay great glad

29:36 frustrated and said yeah okay great glad you spent all this time on the warehouse I I got my own thing going on in Excel here where I can get my my own data much faster than you and that means your business intelligence proc like something’s failed because the reason you would buy like invest in all that time is so that these people can get access to more data better data faster right and I think to to Mike’s other points points organizations that don’t have a great data data culture also don’t have clearly

30:08 culture also don’t have clearly defined objectives they have less objectives that cross the spans of teams and as such those Force I think some of the lower levels of communication where I’m in my realm I’m solving my problem right it’s siloed or it is not a helper right and I think that’s where in order to elevate the the levels of communication I think you’re referring to Tommy that it starts with clear

30:39 to Tommy that it starts with clear objectives within or goals within organization that that different business units look at and say I can solve this let me help you solve these problems or I want to go invest in this infrastructure because that’s going to speed up the solution for us to attain this thing and then it brings that the levels of levels of communication outside the realm of I want to own powerbi it’s my solution I’m going to do my thing to Joint efforts of fantastic great quick wins you’re doing

31:10 fantastic great quick wins you’re doing what you need to do let’s a line on how we grow that into something that is much more useful because you’re going to need this data you’re going to need that data you’re going need this thing well we can build a model that’s going to extend past this we can build solutions that are going to allow you to share across the organization if etc etc and that’s where I think the fabric parts of this like you open the doors to much more higher levels of communication and and by higher like you’re you’re getting closer to solving the problem as

31:42 getting closer to solving the problem as an organization with business units like business intelligence that is key in understanding both aspects or should right foot in it foot in business because it like if if you want one area that I think is probably one of the most exciting in an organization it is data and business intelligence because of the fact that you can with clearly defined objectives understand the Matrix of like

32:12 objectives understand the Matrix of like what how you Align data to solve these problems I think much more so than any other part of the organization so I think like to answer the around communication I think it it it aligns with that objectives data literacy and bringing that up to a point but that alignment across teams and leveling up that communication is ultimately I think where you want to be there’s two large themes I heard from both of you and and Mike I love how you took that differently from the

32:42 you took that differently from the article where bi is at the dictatorship of the teams of departments but two large themes I heard from both of you in terms of the barriers to effective business communication alignment and it sounds like the lack of

32:55 alignment and it sounds like the lack of trust in The Entity that is business intelligence at an organization not so much the data but what the team the process and what bi can achieve is a huge barrier for this to occur and then the lack of the business intelligence Foundation at an organization in terms of are they established there those two items those two elements if you don’t have that at your organization this is not going to happen

33:28 organization this is not going to happen so this brings in a really good point here particularly talking about the first bullet point now talking about to achieve business alignment the first thing that the article talks about is communication alignment right and I think Tommy your point right there really aligns very well with this and I would agree many of these bullet points I use and find them to be very effective when working with a team one I think that is underrated in this list is be transparent when communicating policies decisions and changes to to what you’re building right so that’s having

33:59 building right so that’s having a clearly organized place where your documentation your processes go that is extremely helpful and without that you’re going to struggle as an organization to really be able to develop again get people along for the ride get everyone walk Walking the same direction so this is really good any other bullet points that you guys found that stuck out in the communication alignment piece well I guess I 100% agree with the second one where we’re talking about a shared awareness of business strategy right because all my

34:30 business strategy right because all my talking points were right around that one yeah but yeah ultimately that point basically says for the audience here a shared awareness of the business strategy and key business objectives among content owners creators consumers and administrators a common understanding should be integral to the data culture and decision- making across the organization and that’s where you get those those valuable communication levels I think I think Tommy tier point though too like when a a lot of this conversation well

35:02 when a a lot of this conversation well it’d be interesting from the fabric standpoint who’s driving this conversation is it still the bi team probably because it ultimately if and and the reason I say that’s important is Tommy you were saying like the the bi team can’t be trusted or like they’re only building reports and throwing them out the door I think one of the most important things for a central bi team to do or to be why it should be established if you don’t have it is is to start to solve these

35:34 have it is is to start to solve these larger problems and Define what the objectives of that team are because if the the value of a business intelligence team in an organization is to just be report Builders that’s not that’s not the value you need to get to these next levels to where you’re even talking about adoption of business intelligence and data across an organization and what I like about the fact that we’re revisiting this topic in the lens of fabric and data is all of

36:05 the lens of fabric and data is all of this is interrelated right like you need infrastructures to scale on top of and scale forward so that people have access to data can aggregate the insights that they need to that you can build the reports Etc so that’s part all part and parcel of this the overall data solution and why I think it’s important to rehash and Rec communicate these things because the business intelligence team is can be should be that team that holistically is looking at this and starting to be

36:37 looking at this and starting to be strategic and whether that’s the manager the director of that team engaging working with executive leadership there has to be that buyin right because what you’re saying ultimately is if you’re driving this upwards in conversation is that we need to find alignment right on this strategy that would put the business intelligence team in a realm of key report building but support process building like governance like all the things that we

37:08 governance like all the things that we start to find and this is where I love this article and by the way Peter Meers is the author of this one and I if like one of my favorite MVP Microsoft folks I don’t I I don’t know if he made it the full conversion to the to the motorship here but my goodness like this guy has been around for a long time and the content that he provides in here I I love his stuff but I like the way he can build out these things I’m really a big fan side fan side note well I think there’s a clear

37:38 note well I think there’s a clear distinction we need to make when we say alignment and to Seth is very semantic and words have meaning on the same boat here compared to just listening to what the business wants and I because a lot of this is about the communication hearing what the objectives are for the business that does not mean everything the business dictates you to do you have to do I had it personally speaking back in the day as a data analyst when I noticed the change from a data culture point of view we had a project manager

38:09 point of view we had a project manager we finally centralized our business intelligence team and I still worked with Marketing sales and I went back to my project manager and I said we’re GNA work on this he said no we’re not I said but that’s their request he’s like where’s the business value he’s like you’re not working on yeah and I I love that guy what’s his name I I knowy yeah but that to me was a big change because up until that point if that team wanted something which was alignment you did it but then they had

38:40 alignment you did it but then they had to prove the value and we actually had that open communication that’s the move towards alignment is where business intelligence has an active role in that communication and an active role in the strategy okay team organization Department where are you going what is your six-month plan as a team not from just what you want from data but what is your active role of what are your your goals oh you guys are doing new accounts hey we can work with you on that not just build us a report da d d da it it’s

39:12 just build us a report da d d da it it’s actually actively part of their team’s goals and then we see how data fits into that but again I’m going to go back to that trust thing they are not going to come to business intelligence or trust business intelligence with those items to me unless it’s a fully established entity that is a leadership role at the organization I I want to make a point here so we’re we’re talking high level strategy alignment conversation I want to make a I want to lean into a point

39:43 to make a I want to lean into a point you said that if anybody takes anything out of this podcast and then we’re just listen bobbling heads and you’re not in like an area where you can make these types of decisions you are you are I think the point I want to make is one of the the biggest failings I think and it’s not like people but it’s this culture that like is I’ve been a part of I’ve Done Right is one of not failure failure of organizations to have shared objectives when

40:14 objectives when collectively the organization as a whole cannot lean into and say no these are our 10 objectives for the year what you’re asking me to do does not align to any of those so what is the business value for me to go spend three weeks which is my estimate in building this report where is the value of that well it’s valuable to me well if it’s valuable to you why where is the value to the business because I need to align your request to an objective and that’s

40:45 your request to an objective and that’s where that conversation is so helpful because what what without that and where I’ve seen been seen and and still see in large percentages is organizations will operate and kill themselves because nobody has that alignment so what happens I’m a Dev someone’s asking me to do something I go do it you’re a ticket

41:15 do something I go do it you’re a ticket Pusher somebody somebody created a ticket they there must be a need I’m gonna go build this report a week goes by you built a report and then we have this conversation of like nobody uses it right this is going to be the biggest thing since slice break oh my gosh four weeks spent nobody uses it one person right but that’s the problem with like so the problem is don’t just blindly follow requests and it’s hard to to say that to an individual that says well

41:45 that to an individual that says well like what what am I supposed to how do I say no and you say no in cases where organizations are like because that doesn’t align with anything that that our executive leadership team and the organization is saying is helpful and that’s why those those processes of ogms or okrs that are shared with the organization that from the employees all the way to the top there’s alignment is so critical to all of these conversations because it it focuses

42:16 conversations because it it focuses people’s time where it needs to be don’t just blindly do things it like if I if I could say that don’t just blindly do things make sure there’s value behind it for the business business all right I’ll see you guys later no but that that is the critical before I think any of this any any of the rest of the article it starts there yeah and and I think this is this pairs very well I think with the communication alignment right so communication alignment is just making sure you’re

42:46 sure you’re communicating those strategic tactical planning those solution type res resolutions that you’re trying to build right so you’re talking a lot about the strategic alignment of what’s going on in your situation there Seth you’re saying hey I’m not going to build I want this report I want this data on here okay I think there’s a you you can’t you have to align it to a strategic direction of the company on the other hand too I don’t think

43:17 the other hand too I don’t think people know what they want day one right out of the box so I think a lot of times as well I find giving people a model they can go play with to explore the data that we have helps people understand how it relates and can work together so I I do think there should be even some of these conversations like those enough of those like one-off requests from enough people okay maybe we’re talking about you need to learn how to actually self-service your your data needs I

43:47 self-service your your data needs I don’t want to be in the in the business of report building everyone every report

43:52 of report building everyone every report I just don’t want to you could do that I just don’t think I want to be doing that I think it’s more fun to think about the cubes and the models and the the bigger picture and like let’s diagram out the business and how does it actually work and from there we can then build larger Cube sets and from and that’s how you teach people how to use that stuff I think to me that’s more those are all and and I agree 100% it’s not like you’re every person who’s creating value for the business is the Frontline report Builder correct which is even more important Mike to make sure

44:23 is even more important Mike to make sure that your work of of creating building sustaining models that are extending the power of the business yes aligns to an objective because that’s a larger goal right and and this is where I’m not like objectives of an organization are not go build this report objectives of an organization are high level and they get higher as they go somebody’s making report requests though that don’t align to strategic things which are like typically going to be hey we need we need this report because we’re going to we need to drive efficiencies and get

44:53 we need to drive efficiencies and get down to 25% X number whatever ever that’s our objective it’s important for me to be able to line to that objective because if there’s one major problem a business intelligence team has it’s what is your Roi for all of the people that you have well I’m I’m a supplemental team I help these business business units automate things find insights to build revenue find insights to drive cost savings and if I don’t have something to hook into and say Here’s the value of my team it becomes very

45:24 the value of my team it becomes very hard in those budget Cycles to justify the means of of like why why do we why are we sustaining this this this large group yeah right man this also goes back to I think was something we’ve said a lot on the podcast previously but for those who haven’t heard it before it’s the does this report make money or save money is a very simple criteria you can align to on the reports how how how am I producing this report to you and how is it helping you save money or make money

45:55 it helping you save money or make money for the organization PL PL simple there’s three layers here and I I think both from the value like how do we actually achieve value in our Solutions like True Value and obviously making money or saving money but the intimate part for a team dollar Tommy all dollars monies it’s it’s action bills I I’m I’m actually from the article and from the conversation I have this foundational pyramid of layers and I want to focus on the top one but there’s three layers the of how effective

46:27 three layers the of how effective business alignment Works our okrs goals the bottom layer everything starts there the next layer is your executive sponsorship engaged and the last layer is the communication and I want to touch on the communication because that’s a huge part of this article but let’s really Define there’s two types of communication here that need to be effective in order for this to work there’s outward communication promotion materials but then the other side is dialogue and dialogue builds

46:57 dialogue and dialogue builds relationship and I as much as this article is talking about communication I really think it’s talking more about building relationships with your teams and organization because we can always do effective promotions and we have our teams Channel and we have our centralized portal but without us having a true dialogue with organizations and teams and departments we’re not going to understand their true business where the values are where the needs are and

47:27 values are where the needs are and they’re also not going to know who we are or where they’re not going to know who the business team is and who they’re going to trust again it has to be a two-way street here I don’t know what are your guys thoughts on where what the definition of communication is here I don’t see that I see your point on what you’re talking about there but I don’t see that being present very much in the article I think the article talks a lot about things that I think are very relevant here are you mentioned outward communication right I think that’s a lot

47:58 communication right I think that’s a lot of that executive leadership getting them Buy in communicating high level directions and goals what we’re trying to do with our data I do think there is I don’t really know how this fits in but I definitely know there’s a large amount of governance and compliance alignment as well so who has access to what information this is becoming much more important especially with fabric now there’s a lot more things you can build there a lot more artifacts that come with the new fabric

48:28 artifacts that come with the new fabric space so when do we use that and I think there’s there’s a bit of an excitement I feel right now is there’s a bit mean I feel right now is there’s a bit of excitement like oh fabric does all this great stuff we should always be thinking about fabric next I’m not sure I’m convinced that fabric is the best solution for every situation in all in all cases at this point I think there’s a lot of great features that come with it but I think you could still just use a regular Pro or premium per user workspace and get away with just a good majority of it just work runs just fine without needing all the fabric

48:59 without needing all the fabric components especially if your organization already has things built that are already doing what fabric is doing doing today so let me let me push back on your mic on that just a tad so the communication alignment M plan making planned for Central teams in regular meetings between different teams and groups strategic alignment you must Define your data analytics and bi goals and tactical planning and then there’s important box that says to achieve effective alignment make it a priority

49:30 effective alignment make it a priority to dismantle any communication barriers how do you that’s all that’s all outward I feel like a lot of that’s outward outward facing but there and there is something here about like executive alignment or maintaining business alignment later down down the article and in in the maintaining business alignment it talks about make sure you have a feedback process and I I think that makes sense I really align with that one right solicit feedback and get it back in yeah I I find it interesting I’m I’m taking that completely when I read it I’m seeing that as active like

50:01 read it I’m seeing that as active like from a pure relationship point of view less from the promotional point of view of just actually meeting with users but I don’t know just Seth do you have active meetings with teams and departments in terms of either is it more from a planning point of view or is it more do you actually have the outward communication well I think there’s multiple parts of this like this this being the alignment article speaks to me that this is around the

50:31 that this is around the developing the strategies and getting alignment and communicating that strategy right like you need Buy in you can’t just do this stuff on your own and and expect it to work right back to the point where it’s not going to be a shared objective it’s not it’s not a goal of the organization so like building the the story that you need to share and communicate is communicating that I think externally the the Tactical

51:01 think externally the the Tactical part of that is once you get the Buy in right where I think this you and Mike were starting to go is like how do you engage with the teams like I need to okay based on an overall strategy what we’re going to do is we’re going to align to the team the the business goals like what are their objective what are they trying to accomplish even without goals and objectives like what is what is what is that business team on the hook for there’s a number or there there’s a efficiency or there’s a something it’s going to be it’s going to be a revenue or be dialogue and that

51:31 be a revenue or be dialogue and that relationship building right I think is that different type of communication and then what goes along with that is also how do you start communicating or building a community within an organization that you can support right and that’s where I think that feedback loop starts to come in really heavily where can you support that can you support all of the the influx of cont like contributors and not just consumers of data but people who want to help who

52:01 of data but people who want to help who want to be part of the self-service solution if there’s part of that got a plan for that right so I I think there are multiple levels the way I see that as far as like how you need to engage and communicate with with different parts of the organization depending on where you’re at I like this one comment inside the maintain business alignment section where it talks about assign a responsible team a working team needs to review the feedback provided by people organizers need to have realignment sessions and this team is

52:33 realignment sessions and this team is responsible for aligning the planning and priorities between the business and your data strategy this one one example of this is you have other Legacy systems whatever they may be Oracle db2 right there may be a strategy that says these systems are becoming costly and we want to move away from them what do we we need to do to get there part of that might be migrate to fabric migrate to other tools move to Cloud those are bigger strategic decisions that need to

53:04 bigger strategic decisions that need to happen and they don’t happen overnight so there there’s a large someone’s making the decision and spending lots of money to make sure that that happens and so people can still get their data so I do think I do think you have to listen to the feedback mean you have to listen to the feedback of the organization are there thousands of SQL are there thousands of access databases riddled across the the company and it’s we’re creating little mini silos of data all over the place are your Excel files getting really long and slow have have you ever had an instance

53:34 slow have have you ever had an instance where you’re reviewing your Excel work with a very high level in the organization and it fails like there those are those are moments in time where you could Galvanize pieces around this and pull teams in to really align to a direction and make change you can capitalize on those moments and Mike the the Focus here I think is on the people I can remember and know from projects I’ve worked on and working inside the

54:05 I’ve worked on and working inside the people here are the most vital part of this and identifying the right people both from your bi team if it’s centralized but more importantly from the business side identifying people who get it who understand the value powerbi but are people are going to be transparent with you as well that makes or break this side because without their understanding of what the needs are for their team or department and without them also trusting you trusting the business team you’re not going to get

54:36 business team you’re not going to get the right value from here and again I can go through multiple projects where it’s like oh we would have never identified that unless you brought that to the surface and it was never a need for business intelligence but oh you

54:49 for business intelligence but oh you guys are migrating to this well yeah we need to make that a priority for us too or just like people are struggling with with their kpis they don’t trust it having and identifying people in the business who trust in the data culture and trust in business intelligence ideally in a leadership role a manager vice president whatso not that is so vital to this before to me even before process even before where you are with technology yeah I think from the

55:19 with technology yeah I think from the business alignment perspective one of the one of the key parts to think about here when devel in strategies is to to ensure that you you only go so far as to to locking on the core things initially before you launch and because every business unit is different they’re all going to they’re all going to have unique characteristics that you need to be aware of and engage with in order to like be in order to solve their problems right they’re going to have different Tech Stacks they’re going to have different processes they’re going

55:50 have different processes they’re going to have different things that you need to sync and align to and make sure that you find that level of paths forward of how you can most effectively assist them in in what they’re trying to do yeah I think this is go ahead Tommy I was gonna say a big part of this too is just in that same area things are evolving all the time whatever your initiatives are in January I can almost guarantee you by June 100% everything

56:20 guarantee you by June 100% everything changes and that’s part of the what the word is consistent communication not we had a call with our department in January and that’s what we’re focusing on priorities change your team changes their teams change yes or or the situations change and I think that goes back to our reports as well where we build a report and what do we always say how do we adapt and what’s the second life cycle of it same thing in our projects yeah so another thing I’ll kind

56:51 projects yeah so another thing I’ll kind projects yeah so another thing I’ll also point out here too if you think of also point out here too if you think about the there are smaller questions about the business and then there are bigger questions about the business so what by this is bigger questions are like are we’re going to make enough money to make payroll this month are are we get enough Revenue in the door right where are our products and how are we meeting our customers needs those are some of the bigger questions there are smaller questions that are around how’s my department performing what’s my product line doing and those are more catered towards those individual users

57:21 catered towards those individual users that have very specific business needs I feel like the very large questions do not change very frequently however the smaller TR the very tactical questions in order someone to do their daily job so I think I think this maintaining business alignment I think having executive sponsorship I think regularly engaging your community asking for feedback what can we do better that just aligns the expectations of the business better with where you’re going direction for this bi and you can answer the big questions and the small

57:52 the big questions and the small questions by using this methodology so I think this is a really another very solid article yeah really good topics and highly would recommend a read through on this one let me ask you guys one last question I think a lot of this is are obviously incredible and we’re talking a lot about like what it’s already structured if you’re just starting off and you want to start establishing this at your organization whether you have a bi team where do you start what are the most important elements to the beginning

58:23 most important elements to the beginning stage of this of making this an expectation at the organization rather than something new and introduced well first and foremost I would 100% read all the way through the adoption road map take your times make notes at the end of every section in the adoption road map there’s a beautiful little assess yourself level 100 to level 500 put yourself in a scale and i’ I’d literally go through and write through each of these sections inside the adoption road

58:53 these sections inside the adoption road map and rate yourself Where You Are are in a company so if if nothing else one it’s learn from others who have done this before pick their best practices and utilize them I think that’ll be your best win for Success I’ll lean on what Matthew roach said I can’t take credit for this one you want to focus on your executive sponsor this will never win unless you make your executive sponsor look good so whatever you’re doing no matter what it is whatever be initiatives happening here you want to focus on make it easy for them to just yeah Tommy’s doing it great

59:24 them to just yeah Tommy’s doing it great great job Tommy’s figuring things out he’s got a plan he’s got road maps he’s documenting things it’s publicly available I can see the process he’s building like all these things are occurring he’s got scheduled meetings by monthly or quarterly there’s a road map all these things you don’t need approval to go do you can you can just have these things established and it adds credibility to your process and what you’re doing so that’s where I would start with I would start with executive sponsor read the adoption road map and follow it its guidance yeah

59:54 road map and follow it its guidance yeah like this is almost a good final thoughts question Tommy 100% agree the maturity matrixes whichever one you want to pick there’s a bunch out there not not just the ones that are in these technical articles but part and parcel they they give you the context and some of the like the understanding of where you’re at where you need to go and and that’s very important for if this is brand new to you it gives you context the words the things that you can go look up and research and align to and start

60:25 research and align to and start building a framework for strategy I. E a story right because you’re going to need to not just develop a relationship with an executive sponsor but pitch them that story and you need to get them to buy in on it before any of the like the larger big things are going to going to be able to be lifted in the organization and then and then once you have that alignment or at least the Buy in start building business strategy start to plan out like how do you solve some of the biggest problem problems in the organization and then

60:55 problems in the organization and then you start like adding in the pieces that the organization would want or should want to invest in the people the infrastructure like data access how reporting tools processes like all of this comes with that as a a byproduct of your engagement in trying to solve these larger problems for an organization so like it’s a like just get started but the the Matrix is a great place to set a framew for your head to dive into these articles

61:28 your head to dive into these articles which they do a fantastic job of like this is probably one of the best series of articles that they came out with powerbi and now fabric around adoption of powerbi and their tooling but there’s so much more there from just the business intelligence perspective that it’s almost a step by step right like go build all this stuff engage in a line here’s how you build all this next stuff and there obviously uniqueness and differences within organizations and that’s where

61:59 within organizations and that’s where the Nuance comes in it’s not just plug and play every every place is different every culture is different and the set of challenges are different but it’s very wise it’s very wise for them to do this Deep dive how to make it go they’ve been doing bi for 30 years plus with all these different tools like they should know what’s going on and they’re building tools for the this helps you understand they understand the problem and they’re going to come up with a solution that’s going to help you yeah and the last thing I’ll say I think just

62:30 and the last thing I’ll say I think just towards this and what I really love is the underlying theme Here is consistency and the reason I say that is it is actually a negative effect if you do these items once and not continual if you’re going to start doing a road map you better well update it if you’re going to start doing business alignment meetings you cannot do it once if you do it once it’s actually going to have a negative effect effect all the things go into Data culture because becomes the expectation I know sales or Market bi

63:02 expectation I know sales or Market bi will meet with my team on a quarterly basis I know I can see where our major and minor goals are on a consistent basis if you’re going to start this you better well have the plan to keep it consistent and keep a long road map here yep I know it’s final thoughts but that’s such a good point because like think about those levels of communication story to the executive story for strategy Etc the The Wider that communication goes like you get one shot

63:32 communication goes like you get one shot like in a couple of those areas you better make sure that you have things aligned and once you open up big strategies to an organization or those all those lines of communication that go open you need to be able to support it otherwise we know business people we talk it all the time what are they going to do find their own Solutions your doesn’t work right yeah export to excel once you start the fun shouldn’t stop so is that the pop not pop the it’s a good regardless oh Pringles Doro I think it’s one Doritos

64:04 Pringles Doro I think it’s one Doritos you have one you can’t stop or you can’t just have one or something like that guy with mustache the potato ship with the mustache that’s Pringles singles Pringles yeah one yeah that’s that’s state of culture okay yeah dat culture great just like like Pringles awesome well that well thank you very much for listening today sorry for the weird timing on things but for those who are listening on the podcast online afterwards hope you’re enjoying your run I hope you’re enjoying

64:35 enjoying your run I hope you’re enjoying your walk so if you like this episode if this was intriguing and you thought you found something interesting out of this article we would love it if you would share it with somebody else it really helps get the word out there about the podcast and what we’re talking about and just discussing more relevant topics around powerbi Tommy where else can you find the podcast you can find us in apple Spotify wherever get your podcast make sure to to subscribe and leave a rating it helps us out a ton do you have a question an idea or topic that you want us to talk about in a future episode head over to powerbi. com

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