Creativity in Power BI – Ep. 286

Creativity in Power BI isn’t about turning every page into a Dribbble post. It’s the practical craft of making a report communicate: choosing what matters, building a clear hierarchy, and shaping interactions so the audience lands on the right takeaway quickly.

In this episode, Mike, Tommy, and Seth talk about where creativity actually shows up in real-world Power BI work (layout, narrative flow, emphasis, and definitions) and why good standards should enable better work—not flatten everything into the same generic template.

News & Announcements

• Submit a topic idea (Explicit Measures Podcast) — Send questions, scenarios, and episode ideas for future episodes.
• PowerBI.tips Podcast — Subscribe to the show and catch past episodes.
• Power BI Theme Generator — Create a consistent look-and-feel for reports without hand-tuning colors and fonts every time.
• John Cleese on Creativity In Management — The reference video linked in the episode description.

Main Discussion

The point isn’t “be artistic.” The point is to be intentional—because every creative choice you make (or don’t make) affects comprehension, trust, and adoption.

Key takeaways:

• Anchor creativity to the business decision: if the question is vague, the report will be creative… and useless.
• Use constraints on purpose (grid, spacing rules, a limited palette, a small set of visual patterns) so the page reads fast.
• Design for the busy reader: strong hierarchy (titles, callouts, and ordering) beats cleverness every time.
• Make definitions explicit and consistent—creativity that changes meaning across pages destroys trust.
• Treat interaction design as part of the story (filters, drill paths, and navigation should be predictable).
• Reuse what works: scale creativity through repeatable patterns so you spend time on insights, not re-building layouts.
• Iterate in small loops with feedback; “perfect on first publish” is a fantasy.

Looking Forward

If you pair clear standards with intentional storytelling, creativity becomes a repeatable advantage—not a one-off flourish.

Episode Transcript

0:29 good morning everyone and welcome back to the explicit met pod podcast with Tommy Seth and Mike oh I almost messed it up there for a second good yes it’s it’s rough only after doing 300 of these I almost started to mess them up now see over exaggerating again over not even there yet not man I’m just optimistic I’m trying to get into my creativity mode all right make sense for you later it’ll make sense for you later so welcome back to the podcast we this

0:59 welcome back to the podcast we this is a pre-recording episodes is just FYI we will not be able to listen to your comments online and react to those but we appreciate you still tuning in and listening to the podcast so we will continue to make sure we have this available for you on this wonderful Thursday morning all right jumping in here we’re going to skip intros there really hasn’t been a whole lot of news from the powerbi team at this point there’s been a couple articles maybe on the fabric blog things that have been coming out but there’s there’s not been a ton of information just because it’s January Microsoft team is is taking

1:30 January Microsoft team is is taking off for December that usually they work on things getting features done the month or months before and so with the holidays and ramping down Microsoft just decides not to release a version to desktop until the February release so hopefully they get their ducks in a row and we can get a nice early release in February like week one which never happens but somebody probably the wait till week two of February before we get some updates around RBI I think this bodess well too why we do our schedule on Tuesdays and

2:00 why we do our schedule on Tuesdays and Thursdays we’re recording on a Monday which basically means anything that can happen this week let’s say they drop another conference on us on Wednesday well we would have to wait but that’s why I think our Tuesday Thursday works so well we’re we’re we’re in the middle of it we catch a lot of news when as it comes out and we’re try to bring you the the best news we just we just don’t have any good news for you right now so with that we’ll move on to our main topic today so our main topic this isn’t a a video I think Tommy you found this one from one of the gentlemen from I I

2:32 from one of the gentlemen from I I believe the reason I know him is he’s from the Monty Python skits he’s one of the the writers I would assume he is one of the writers and actors yeah one of the founders of Monty Python okay and is he just is he just a is he a writer in general or is that just he’s a director like I don’t really know his Hill’s background I should probably should done more homework on goodness all right so I’ll let you do the let let me take over from here because to do John C’s proper proper introduction we today we’re about a video John CLE

3:03 today we’re about a video John CLE who’s one of the founders of Monty Python which is also where the language python actually comes from little known fact so interesting Mighty python one of the most hilarious segments that came out of the UK and actually was one of the I think beginning stages of SNL all those skits one of the funniest people out there he’s done if you ever seen Monty pyth and the Holy Grail the me the Life of Brian have not seen the Life of Brian oh B look I’m with the bright side of

3:39 life yes I won’t I won’t do the second so it’s but they’re they’re all skit segment it’s hilarious and that creativity so why are we talking about that with bi and I think for there’s a video that John C did at this management firm is really talking about creativity and management we watched this video or I I sent it to Mike and Seth and said how well does this equate with business intelligence with both report creation adoption everything that we do the word creativity normally we think of just

4:10 creativity normally we think of just with I I would assume with visualizations but we know what we have best practices and documentation but nothing ever really always goes to plan it’s not always going to be by the book this is not your normal recipe so where does creativity can play in what we do to grow grow a data culture how can we allow creativity and talking about it in the in the realm of a video there’s a few segments will go into there but and that’s humor that’s being open to it

4:41 and that’s humor that’s being open to it it’s not pressing for things and how can we apply that to our day-to-day yeah I think so I think in the article it goes through five main points around being creative how do how do you start getting creative and how do you not and I think this is this is going to be good because I think Tommy you were thinking about this in the context of governance and AD admin and just working through that as well not sure if I saw the parallel so closely to there I definitely saw the

5:11 closely to there I definitely saw the parallel as far as being creative with building reports and solving data problems and how to solve these problems there as well do you remember the five what were the five main key points that I think you put out there that were like the the areas to well let me I guess we should talk first about opens with the idea of there’s this open way of thinking and a closed way of thinking and it defines as two main key maybe we should go through those first then riff from there so they’ve done a lot of studies on what does it mean to be creative is it a

5:42 does it mean to be creative is it a skill or is it an actual in a sense State and some Studies have done and you think that oh being creative that’s just the person that goes against the studies where being creative is an being what’s called an open State we’re all used to being what’s called a closed State when we’re usually doing what we do it’s the urgency it’s the task workk there’s a deadline your head’s down there’s a sense of stress and that’s called a closed mode and creativity does not Foster there there’s the other side of the coin which is being open mode or

6:13 of the coin which is being open mode or the open mode where there’s we are simply in a state of thinking without an urgency without a deadline without a decision to be made at that time and based on these studies that’s where creativity can really Foster and to John who’s again maybe one of the most cre people of the last 100 years and definitely the top 10 he states that it’s not a skill it’s not like a gene or it’s not just a behavioral I liked that part I like that part and he made a very

6:44 part I like that part and he made a very strong parallel between the ability to play and creativity was I think a very right a very relevant thing another point that he made in the early in the video which I which resonated very well with me which I try and have when I work with companies is is you have this idea of like there are no wrong answers right when you’re when you’re in creativity mode mhm all ideas are a good idea right and let me spray if you watch the video he makes a lot of how to screw in light bulb jokes but in a very John CLE way yeah so I’ve

7:15 but in a very John CLE way yeah so I’ve taken the liberty and I think we could spray those in as well in in in in in honor of what John C did so let me just spray a few if you here humor is a big part of creativity so how many business analysts does it take to screwing a light bulb two one to assure everything everyone that everything’s going according to plan while the other screws the bulb into a water faucet how many stakeholders does it take to change a light bulb four one to ask for a Greener bulb one to demand a

7:45 ask for a Greener bulb one to demand a cost eff of a solution one to insist on a smart bulb and the other question why the bulb needs changing at all that’s so true how many stakeholders does it take to change a light bulb five one to change it and four to form a committee to debate whether is better the old way way I got I got a ton so and these are good some of them yeah I I’ve been saving them but creativity is a huge part I think with humor and I love that we do that on the podcast and you don’t think of business intelligence data and

8:16 think of business intelligence data and humor or creativity or at least I never have I and again I think to your point earlier Tommy I think I immediately associate creativity right away with the report side like I go right there that’s where I think I land like oh yeah creativity it’s how the report looks it’s how the UI is it’s it’s the colors it’s the pallets like and I will be the first to admit when I talk with other MVPs other MVPs have blatantly said I’m really good at building data models I’m not the best at doing colors and picking

8:48 not the best at doing colors and picking graphical piece like they can they can put the graphs and the charts on the page and make them work but making it all visually stimulating I think is a bit more of an art and that’s that is to your point it’s a little bit of a different mode than the the closed mode it is an open mode be a bit more creative allow things to flow and try things out and not try things out what are your thoughts Seth any any initial thoughts for the article or open closed modes how you think this relates to

9:19 modes how you think this relates to powerbi yeah I I think sticking with you powerbi yeah I I think sticking with the outline of of what he’s know the outline of of what he’s discussing first right and then we can talk about the application but yeah I talk about the application but yeah the the main Drive ever is between mean the the main Drive ever is between close mode which Tommy already outlined right this is where and I agree that the vast majority of indiv like your daily execution at work is in this mode right you we’re not we’re not we’re not being creative with Solutions

9:49 not being creative with Solutions typically not in the way he outlines and I think this idea of being open in his five steps is going to challenge even what people who are listening right now are saying like oh I’m creative like not the way he’s outlining it I don’t think because we don’t allow ourselves this this process like time to do this do this process and like typically so I if

10:15 process and like typically so I if we’re always executing in a closed mode you’re you’re generally not exploring different solutions or possibly coming up with the best one because we’re always outlining he outlines that there’s this mode of stress there’s an underlying tone of we need to get things done etc etc and I I this resonates I think pretty deeply with the way in

10:51 which individuals who at least can do some creative mode or work that into their solution can look at problems differently right and see that you differently right and see that a process is not good like it’s know a process is not good like it’s we’re going to introduce something that’s not good we’re going to build a report in the wrong way or you build a report in the wrong way or whatever the case may be but I know whatever the case may be but I think like what’ll be interesting to discuss is whether not that’s like creativity or just experience of of a lot of the the learnings but either

11:21 lot of the the learnings but either way like it I I very well worth watching very humorous I love his ending which we can talk about later but ultimately it it opens with this idea like the vast majority of how do you want to solve problems in your organization I think it challenges that a bit because if you think about especially in the engineering Realms how we utilize employee time it’s typically in the Clos mode go execute yes it’s very exe executive based nature I would

11:51 very exe executive based nature I would 100% agree with that one and my Seth you said something very interesting about especially in the context of the create the open mode about the deadlines or making it a decision I when I think of being creative or whatever the the problem is part of this and again the video does a great job and John C does a great job of I’m not trying to be creative for the sake of solving a problem or in that context of okay I have an hour to myself one of the those five elements of being creative is

12:21 five elements of being creative is time a time and having that quiet it’s not like okay I’m going to be here and I’m going to make a decision the next hour it’s being created for the sake of playing or the sake of being creative and I think a lot of times we get stuck like okay let’s be creative let’s think of a solution here you’re still in a I think we’re still in a very much closed mode because we’re still like I have a deadline I have something to solve let’s just think of a different way of doing it but that doesn’t necessarily mean we’re being creative Mike to your point too and

12:51 creative Mike to your point too and this might be a little parking lot but you you correlated creative and the styling of the report I I feel like those are two different things to me what when it comes to actually truly being creative and really designing something I I think there’s some correlation but I think there’s a a bigger box here yeah if I think about like the surface area of things that are powerbi relevant that’s just what came to mind like when I’m thinking about being creative cuz that’s just my perception right perception of creative people are

13:22 perception of creative people are artists and and Painters and and people that are coming with shapes and designs and when I look at you designs and when I look at I go to LinkedIn a lot and know I go to LinkedIn a lot and there’s a lot of people putting out hey look this is a report I built right and I I can see reports I resonate with some reports are beautiful and they’re like very engaging and you want to like wow I want to see how they built this I want to see what’s what’s made here I would say those are have someone has spent some time to step away and Design

13:52 spent some time to step away and Design This report for the Nike shoe the BMW car the whatever the thing is and they’re using very creative powerbi elements and it’s almost it’s almost to some degree when I’m looking at the reports and the creativity side I’m like it’s somewhat like telling a joke because I look at what they’ve done and I’m like I wonder how did they do that and then I have to go look at the report and click on the elements and like try and determine like what combination of things is it a slicer and like one of the ones that I saw from Miguel

14:22 the ones that I saw from Miguel Meyers build was there was this the world map and on the world map was a globe behind it so when you clicked on a country the country would like zoom into Focus but the shape of the world was like this circle on the background so he had combined like a shape with the map Visual and overlaid them on top of each other such that whenever you clicked on a particular element the the the shape of the map would then zoom into focus and I was like wow this is really neat looking and to me it was like a joke

14:52 looking and to me it was like a joke because there was like a punch line like the punch line was like how did you do it like what is the what is the output like how did you put these various pieces together in a way that makes this look really visually appealing so that’s again that’s just my perception of where I go creativity however if I if I try to open my mind up a bit more and think about other places where we could employ creativity it’s could be creativity in how do you solve Dax equations it could be some creativity around how do you model the data in a way that gets the output that you want it could be

15:22 output that you want it could be creativity around how do you engage data culture within your organization because if you’re super dry and you’re just very task driven throughout driving those meetings around data culture will people want to enjoy and engage right I think people would be more AP to engage if they find a fun enjoyable light-hearted in like inclusive space for people to really jump in and learn about data culture and how that you could help make them more efficient so those are those are where my other thoughts go around work where this could go

15:52 around work where this could go in other areas of powerbi other than just the easy win of creating a report I think what’s important to outline for the audience here as well which we haven’t right is when John’s outlining what he thinks the the creative process should be right so it’s five steps right create space time within that space time is number three take as long as possible prior to any decision right confidence

16:24 prior to any decision right confidence and humor he’s no way he’s he’s really high on humor but in and then like there’s a lot more after that but I think outlining those far parts and if I if I heard correctly it was almost like a 4 Hour block or something I think it was an hour and a half an hour and a half to get into the space right like and and what no no it was an hour and a half total it was like 30 minutes to likees to get let your mind wander and and a half total yeah I I resonated a lot with that point you

16:54 I resonated a lot with that point you said there Seth cuz he was like the first 30 minutes is like your mind’s going to sit there and wander it’s going to go to tangents and I got to do this and this task you got to let it you got to let it do its thing and settle down and then you get to an hour of like productive okay creativity time yeah and I what what what I what resonates with me is like he he’s outlining this this creative process as play right like it has a defined start and an end

17:24 like it has a defined start and an end right and you’re putting yourself in I think where a lot of well I don’t know I’m not going to speak for other people you’re putting yourself in a position where to to unwind from our closed mode and because all of us are in this mode typically all the time I think this is a challenge where you have to like get to a position where you all of these cluttering thoughts family kids like work stresses of time get pushed to the

17:56 work stresses of time get pushed to the side and then the idea is to just Ponder and make sure you’re touching the the the subject right like there is a focus and there’s a purpose for this time to solve a problem right it’s it’s not it’s not putting pressure or stress on ourselves but it’s like it’s creatively creatively thinking of different ways we can build the best solution right and this is I

18:27 the best solution right and this is I think the challenge that we can start talking about in like the application of in many different ways within our jobs lives whatever but the having having done this sometimes but not not an avid practitioner pushes me back into like well my focuses of the day should really include this and the outcomes he gives an example of are are better Sol Solutions right I I think

18:59 are better Sol Solutions right I I think he gave an analogy where there was a directive and there was some other writer and he was done done instantly and he was like how like I he goes back to his trailer and he spends all this creativ creative time thinking about what they’re going to develop in the next writing segment whatever and his stuff is much better of course it is because when we allow ourselves time to really digest and think about potential Solutions Solutions you always come up with a better

19:30 you always come up with a better solution and I think where I want to dive later on is doing that with other people yeah which I think you guys touched on a little bit but it’s this process of not not instantly going I know how to do that right this this whole there’s an analogy that’s used a lot in engineering like if it looks like a nail and you have a hammer right bam it’s done as opposed to looking at possible other solutions that could be better and the only way you’re going to get to that thing is where you

20:00 get to that thing is where you go through this process or if you’re going to do it collectively you you go in with this playful Behavior to drum up better ideas and I I think there’s a lot to talk about in in meetings right as well yeah that he addresses in that topic as well so I I covered a lot of things but I wanted to hit the Five Points of how he goes through and what he’s recommending as far as a process is concerned based on all this res search that produces a better outcome when

20:33 that produces a better outcome when we engage in like letting ourselves come down a bit and and then I I I want to spend more time in the confidence realm but I want to keep that I I think there’s some I the the five elements there are huge and I I’ve always considered myself a little more on the creative side and I’ll just give an example of something I used to do back in the day of very much in the this element or the framework here A buddy of mine who you could put us in a white room for 10 hours and we

21:04 us in a white room for 10 hours and we would have the time of our lives we’re just always have very creative people and we used to do videos for youth groups we used to put a lot lot of stuff together and we’d always start on a week by- week basis on what’s funny not like we have to get this thing done or this video done or this segment done we just started in this realm of did you see something funny yeah and then not worry about the end goal just having that openness and I I challenge for some of you who like how does this equate to bi think about the times you’ve been

21:35 bi think about the times you’ve been creative too and it usually starts with maybe you’re having coffee with someone and you’re just either reminiscing or talking about something you saw and that leads to a lot of other things that is such an essential part of of the creativity side I try to do this and I I try to get off my computer I I’ve been equating this a lot when I saw this video outside of just the Port creation and solutions but very much from a training and adoption point of view because as much as we do the implementation Tuesdays right which are

22:06 implementation Tuesdays right which are our essential and best practices I think one thing we’ve done on this podcast is we’ve realized very very strongly that nothing always goes according to plan the people the the ingredients the where people are at the culture all those things are going to shift I think the actual implementation of it I’ll get off my computer and I just try to use my whiteboard which is essential for me and just start thinking about what would I want thing

22:36 about what would I want thing and just thinking about all the experiences but I have to get off the computer I have to get off a deadline or hey we need to get this Pro this training implementation done by the end of January okay so where do we start it’s like okay if I had an ideal world for me I always start like if I had all the resources in the world what would I what would I want to be at that’s why I started talk doing spe speaking in the first place the first conference I went to I remember I was bored not because of the content because I thought some of the speakers were very monotone and it

23:07 the speakers were very monotone and it wasn’t entertaining for me and I’m like if I’m ever here I’m always putting myself in that situation so I always try to start an ideal point of view regardless of adoption or report creation like what would I want what would what would make me happy or upset and try to forget deadlines and I think that’s the hardest thing for what we do is deadlines and project goals and Milestones and we’re always trying to reach that end goal when a lot of times that decision doesn’t have to be made

23:38 doesn’t have to be made today it goes both ways I would say there are a lot of tasks that that do fall in closed mode right like we have we have a bunch of things to deliver is there some creativity in there well maybe it’s design it’s like but at the same time a lot of it’s experience more experience you have the more this goes into a close mode which is just execution I don’t think there’s anything bad about that I but I I I think what this proposes is at least

24:09 think what this proposes is at least recognizing the times where we do need to be okay this requires a creative solution we need to get into that mode to think about like this on a larger scale or this is a big deal decision but let’s dial it back and and get out of the closed mode we’re going to execute it on right away which I do think creates challenges in many areas so I have a lot of thoughts I’ve been trying to take notes Here on the

24:39 been trying to take notes Here on the side because I had a lot of random thoughts around what’s going on here so F first I’ll say I I like this idea of like towards the end of the talk a lot of things John was saying was resonated with me a lot of the things around hey if you have a presentation coming up and I’ve done a lot of presentations in the past I don’t really prepare very well before the meeting like I remember the very first big one that I did when I went to Microsoft I had the top 10 tips and tricks from power. tips that was that was my thing

25:09 power. tips that was that was my thing and I remember it was a good session I think it went really well it was a packed house I had a lot of people in it it was great but at the end before I Was preparing for it I had prepared everything I had everything getting done I I think I even reviewed it with HTH and you’re like it’s a little bit choppy and it feels a little bit slow and and so that’s was my first pass but that I remember the night before the deadline I really sat down and I had been muling the idea for months I’ve been think I knew it was coming I knew it was coming out but mulling the idea for months and I really said I need to I need to fix it and I literally spent that evening the entire night

25:41 spent that evening the entire night rewriting and doing redoing all the demos and getting all smoothed out and and then it went like like clockwork It was like it worked out really mean it was like it worked out really well like wow it was a great session it was really cool and I felt really good about it but I the idea of the ability to have more creative people are more comfortable with that boundary of being around anxiousness around not having the thing done that resonated with me because I think I’m very comfortable being on the edge of that boundary and Seth and I have presented sessions

26:11 Seth and I have presented sessions together and Seth is not as comfortable as I am do we call that do we call that final decision point or procrastination I don’t know but it’s not like I’m not working on it I’m definitely working it out in my head but it’s like all these like I so my due date on to when things are need to be done is probably closer than the actual due date of when things need to be delivered than most people maybe that’s what’s procrastination is but for me I could definitely see myself in a lot of

26:41 could definitely see myself in a lot of those stances where a lot of the times what I’m presenting when a lot of times I’m putting ideas and thoughts together I don’t do a lot of prep time but I do a lot of thinking time I have a lot of space to to creatively think about those things and to your point Tommy like you were just saying about putting time on a whiteboard and pulling things together I get really stressed out if you try and make me like have a very close timeline to like do this do this do this do this I do much better job if I have like a mirror board or a whiteboard and I can just put ideas down and let them just

27:11 just put ideas down and let them just pres I need to get them out of my head and then I can organize them together I feel like I function much better that way than trying to be like okay task task one what should I do task two what’s the next thing task three what’s the next thing I I do think in here that there you you can help that creative process through skills building right so so what you’re talking about not not I I agree creativity is not a

27:42 not not I I agree creativity is not a skill however Mike in multiple examples you’ve given you’ve you’ve done speaking before you’ve developed presentations before you’ve so you’re mulling how this flow is going to work etc you’ve done that through experience skills right you’ve done that because a lot about your subject matter exactly website and all the tips and tricks You’ve Done Right these are thing these are solutions you found these are all the technical bits that

28:13 all the technical bits that you’re helping people out with already you’ve developed build you’ve developed posts you’ve developed the the the documents ET all of that is a wealth of knowledge you’re bringing into this creative process and what I would argue here is here is John C as well has spent his life life doing writing and humor like being a comedian and and bringing forth humor like those are skills learned there whether that’s learned through

28:43 whether that’s learned through experience skills or reading and introducing that into his repertoire in the same way that’s why I think it’s really important that we and we do we stress a lot of you’re you’re not going to be able to be stress a lot of skills building or continual learning because yes if you don’t know what the art of the possible is right if you don’t know that 70% of all of these options exist for you in this thing called

29:13 this thing called powerbi in those creative sessions you’re not going to explore those you don’t know about them and I think that’s the part that is all I would I struck me is there’s still a lot of like you continual learning skills building all of this because then you can go into those creative sessions and get a lot more out of them or come up with better strategies or better Solutions because you have all of this mulling around in your head right as opposed to I only

29:45 your head right as opposed to I only know this thing is it gonna is it going to be a really great creative session if I that’s all I know I learn something and then I’m going to think about it I don’t think that’s the point the point is trying to draw together all all of these things in your mind and your mind is this thing that creates connections and and works well not under stress but I would argue even in those extremely stressful times if you’ve been a hardcore engineer or coder I guar and and you’ve hit a problem that is just

30:15 and you’ve hit a problem that is just killing you day after day after day I guarantee you will start to dream about it it oh in code in your head while you’re sleeping but that’s like that’s the same thing your brain is just mulling over this problem yeah it’s giving itself time to chew through the solution yeah yeah I’ll be the first to admit I’ve dreamed too much about Excel I cell I have dreamed I was in cells typing formulas that’s a little

30:44 cells typing formulas that’s a little sad I woke up one I remember this was years ago and it was this terrible model we’re trying to figure out this customer touch points I woke up until the morning like and literally I got it scared my wife half to death she like you got I’m like just I need a pen don’t talk to me I I know the relationship who’s relationship so yeah but well Seth you’re you’re speaking of part muscle memory and I I can just equate for me and also empathy all the stuff

31:14 for me and also empathy all the stuff that I do and all with all the things fabric coming out you have to be Clos mode if you’re G to get it if you’re G to learn it but I I conciously go through it and I think my favorite part of what I get to do is what I call like the Arsenal or the tool Bel and you hear some situation go oh you could take a little of this take a little of that you little of this take a little of that maybe they need some of this but know maybe they need some of this but like going through notebooks or going through the lake house when does this make sense and I think that’s a big part of empathy where we’ve talked about how

31:46 of empathy where we’ve talked about how do we learn skills and using our own data but I think all the stuff we do there needs to be a little bit of not just I’m doing it for the sake of doing it like I just need to learn this skill but when does it make sense like when is it applicable or like I don’t I wouldn’t use it in this situation I’m always when I’m learning that’s got to be part of the equation for me and of always say okay when would this make sense to do like and not necessarily an organization but we were talking about the notebook the other day it’s like

32:16 the notebook the other day it’s like okay this makes more sense than power query well why and there they part of learning is I think what I love about talking you guys in our podcast is we’re always asking that why even in a how situation yeah Tommy and I were talking just before we got on the podcast that the podcast feels like a nice creative Adventure away from your normal powerbi landscape landscape right and and the the analogy here was like we’re laughing we’re trying to

32:48 like we’re laughing we’re trying to engage and one of the things that he makes very clear in this is to go from on work mode on task Clos mode to open mode is some humor throw some humor in there and think about those things so I think a lot of what we do in the podcast is try to make it it’s not fun unless we’re laughing about some things or making some light of some complicated situations so I feel like the the podcast sometimes can introduce like these light-hearted time or space away from your normal workflow to think about these things to to spend a little bit of extra time being a bit more creative hearing some different opinions

33:18 creative hearing some different opinions and perspectives that are different than my own and I think the humor opens you up to those moments and then I really this is again this is I I would do this podcast I would talk with you guys about this stuff regardless whether it was on a podcast or not but I enjoy listening to your different perspectives on how you perceive the business and where things should live and who’s administering things and hearing similarities across people’s struggles around data governance and how this is a challenge but I think this gives us the ability to like really laugh about it take it take it in get into a

33:48 about it take it take it in get into a bit more of an open mode space and tease out some of these ideas some of them may be great some of them may be not and U one of the things that John was talking about again towards the end of the episode was talking about how sometimes wild ideas make no sense at all they’re just crazy there’s there’s no connection between these things however entertaining those wild ideas nothing is wrong in creativity mode allows you to make other connections you would not have normally made it’s a

34:18 would not have normally made it’s a progression where you you you will make connections like oh that that doesn’t make sense oh data culture is part of our problem here and but maybe there’s some wild assumptions that are being made that you’re like well that’s that’s preposterous our company would never let us do that or we would never be able to to let the business self-service things but entertaining some of these really Odd Ideas may get you to a new solution that is more reasonable that would maybe meet the goal or objective so I like the I really appreciated the podcast Just For Me growing to learn from from everyone in

34:48 growing to learn from from everyone in the community around how do they like to integrate and and where they find successes or challenges with PBI I I agree with that right and and the thought came I had the same thought before I came into that conversation but that’s that’s I I think also the power of community and talking or listening to others in that pre-form space right so very applicable I think this podcast falls directly in line with eror and the value that some of that brings is just yeah these are ideas they’re like it’s not some big nebulous like we’re not presenting a

35:19 nebulous like we’re not presenting a walkthrough yeah right we’re not presenting the closed mode here’s how you execute on something this is free form discussion like the two points I want to make and then I want to dwell a little secondary like so he outlines this space where we’re talking about me doing this on my own and the the fourth key is confidence and I think that’s where like he spends a lot of time and that’s why I said go watch this video but this this one would be where bring confidence into this play right you just every idea is a good idea nothing’s

35:49 every idea is a good idea nothing’s wrong just let it go even if it doesn’t make sense and just circle around this idea all the time but it’s confidence have confidence in this process of just developing free form ideas jotting them down and and sometimes it you down and and sometimes it even his point sometimes you come know even his point sometimes you come up with something sometimes you don’t where where I think this gets interesting is what are your guys’s thoughts around how how you translate this into meetings within an organization and one of the great

36:19 organization and one of the great examples he gave was and this is completely unbeknownst to me so if I’m speaking out of turn just take it for what it is he talks about the Japanese culture and how their approach to meetings is very free form and I guess one of the things they do is any of the juniors in the room they they ask them what their thoughts are first so that there’s no there’s no friction between like them thinking they can’t say anything because a more senior leader says has an idea first yep what

36:52 leader says has an idea first yep what are and and I think he outlined a lot of other different practical ways in which meetings can be held ironically he makes some I think some great points that challenged my thoughts to to some degree as well related to like very serious topics requiring humor yes it doesn’t it doesn’t detract from the standpoint that we’re all here for a serious outcome but we don’t have to be so solemn about it right like where I think he starts to

37:24 right like where I think he starts to challenge structures of organizations are like people right and one of the things that of the whole talk that hit and resonated me with me and I think it was in the sarcastic end ending was where he challenges like Oh you mean you you somebody somebody Jabs at the the humorous thing or whatever and that that challenges you to actually logically explain why you think this is a good thing as opposed to just saying yeah I’m your boss and that’s what we’re

37:55 yeah I’m your boss and that’s what we’re doing yeah because there is a lot of that or this was the decision that was made it’s like well why I I love I love your points on this one reform things like what are what are some good key things that you guys think people could do in in meetings that are designed like okay we have a problem we have to come up with a creative solution let’s how do you how do you encourage people to push out this closed what we’re not ready to execute and I think he made some really good points but open the floor like what are what are

38:26 open the floor like what are what are some the things we can do or recommend to people to do in these meetings based on John’s video so one thing I I think the cultural aspect that he mentioned here is every idea is a good idea I think that’s very very very important I I’ve known I actually was watching another video from Jeff Bezos and Jeff Bezos does a very similar thing with his executive leadership as well where the least senior person says their idea first and Jeff would be the last one to speak and listen through everyone’s opinions till the very end

38:58 everyone’s opinions till the very end just because the idea being as soon as a leader or someone of seniority says here’s what I think everyone else was well the boss said it therefore we should think the same way the boss does and they stop being creative and and the we all know good Solutions come from diverse thinking right it it there’s going to be a lot the better you can do that so I I love those two really tangible things one other sarcastic moment he had there towards the end of the video I’m going to maybe throw this in there as well was

39:30 throw this in there as well was if you if you want to stay in control and you want to stifle your company’s creativity here’s how to do it like he gave you like he gave you like literally here’s how to squash creativity at your company and he basically pointed at number one step remove all humor and disregard anyone who uses humor in any meetings as irrelevant not important and bad ideas so as soon as you diverge away from that you BAS basically Focus the entire organization to never want to go

40:00 entire organization to never want to go towards an open-minded or open creativity solution it goes and heaven forbid any of your subordinates become creative more creative than you because then they’re going to outperform you like that’s you don’t want that so so God forbid like somebody the effect of like God forbid they use humor to point out that you’re wrong and you feel you feeling utterly challenged and inadequate or something that effect it was great so I thought okay also very well so one one is and I think I I enjoy just a good laugh in general

40:31 I I enjoy just a good laugh in general but I think that does really bring down the tension on things and allows people to be more relaxed and enjoy the conversation and frankly people are about relationships humor is a big portion about gaining people’s trust and being real and being empathetic to them like what you said earlier Tommy in the conversation empathy is a big piece of this so I I think if I had to take away pieces from his his moment every idea is a good idea IDE I need to emphasize more letting the

41:00 IDE I need to emphasize more letting the younger people by seniority speak first new and see what they say and and be and wait to speak and then allowing humor and and creativity could flow inside these meetings so building some time and space and one of my comments from very early here was time equals money so how much money are we willing to spend on allowing people to have some space to be creative and is too much is probably a waste but

41:30 and is too much is probably a waste but not enough means you don’t get better Solutions so it’s going to be a balance there the relationship part is huge and I think there’s always Dynamics in what relationship you’re in and what meeting you can’t tell everyone hey please watch this John C’s video before our meeting to help in your open state but a big part of that’s the shared experiences regardless if you’re dealing with another bi developer or you’re dealing with a stakeholder or report requester sure there’s something that they’ve had that has to do with the situation the shared experience is a big part to kind

42:00 shared experience is a big part to kind shared experience is a big part to I think release a little of the of I think release a little of the stress of the agenda of like hey we need to look at those metrics things like well how do you just being trying to relate trying to have a shared experience for me it’s I start from my framework of give me an ideal state the no idea is a bad idea can’t be understated in what we do we’ve talked about this before but it’s like oh well we need X Y and Z it’s like well what would it be like if it was perfect right like just give me this ridiculous idea and let’s start there and I try to

42:32 idea and let’s start there and I try to see if I can get people excited or if I get excited like that’s a big part of this rather than yes we’ll do what the agenda says like well if you were to have XY and z in the most perfect way possible if you have the best training situation or the best infrastructure what would you have and just give me that don’t let’s not talk about all the X Y and Z’s just what would make your life better and let’s just have fun with that and you’ll and I’ve always been amazed it’s always

43:02 and I’ve always been amazed it’s always been tried and true majority of the times like yeah we could do that or give us a little more money and yeah we could do that it’s never something so to them it sounds outlandish because back to your point Seth if you don’t know the art of the possible why would you ask for that I’ll I will always go back to the idea of Henry Ford said if I asked people what they wanted they would have said a faster Horse no one conceived the car so just give people what would excite them and then I can

43:32 what would excite them and then I can handle the X Y and Z’s so that shared experience and the ideal State now granted if you’re in one of those meetings where the people involved I would not start with a light bulb joke if if something’s broken maybe there’s a little a little more because know your audience to but there’s a big part of that relationship side a shared experience or just how can we both get excited about what we’re trying to achieve here yeah agree I think I think as you were talking like it it it

44:03 as you were talking like it it it brings to light that I’ll probably start declare like defining the type of meeting I’m having strategic versus like not closed right if there meetings in this case yes we we need to have a open creative session to figure out how how to handle a problem probably the minority of meetings as opposed to the others with are we’re bringing a group of people together to communicate the the things fast concisely we have actions we’re going to take out of this here’s what

44:33 going to take out of this here’s what you go do blah blah blah blah yeah the points I would bring to a collective meeting I think he he addressed to some degree but like start with humor right is is there some way you can lighten the mood right right right off the bat another key thing that I that I think doesn’t happen often and why I think it’s important to define a type of meeting or maybe even say hey this is the type of meeting we’re going to have is one where you’re building on

45:05 is one where you’re building on ideas write like another one we which we’ve done write them all down right because if if all of these are fragments of ideas and we’re free from flowing we’re playing right like nothing is wrong we’re just going to have a board where people can visually see what’s being talked about and then you mentally you mentally can start to draw correlations because it’s all there as opposed to I have to remember this all yes positive talk encouraging right when you’re playing there’s no right or wrong

45:35 you’re playing there’s no right or wrong answer and then he he draws into don’t like I I would stipulate and and this is the people part you can’t allow negative people or people that are going to put others that in a defensive position into this Medan oh it stifles the conversation so much when that happens it’ll kill it his point was you happens it’ll kill it his point was any all it takes is one to put know any all it takes is one to put somebody on the defensive and they’ll talk shut down they’re done and they’ll yeah yeah yeah yeah so those being

46:07 so those being said through through this talk of creativity and all this stuff that we’re doing where I think a great application of this would be Python scripts in power cor no it’s in it’s in it’s in that initial Workshop that we talked about in implementation Tuesdays where we’re engaging with the business yeah oh that’s a great idea you want where you want these stakeholders to feel comfortable and talk about what they’re doing and like think about do new

46:38 doing and like think about do new different ways in which a business intelligence team could help them you lay out these parameters of like hey here’s the here’s this creative idea we’re we’re approaching like think about think about this in terms of like efficiencies and like different data and Reporting and insights that you guys would see and we’re not even talking about like the direct implementation it’s just what and then it’s like how do you Broach that in challenges like what are some of the things that we could do better in this so you’re you’re drawing it instantly away from I have my

47:10 drawing it instantly away from I have my process leave me alone yes this is my data don’t touch it all the negative like very close-minded here’s my execution process thing whatever and and explore different ways in which you solve bigger business problems problems that’s fun because or I’m thinking about that where no one really wants a report they just want what what’s inside of it and if there’s an easier way to get what’s inside of it that’s what they would want just right now the report’s the best Avenue and I think those

47:41 the best Avenue and I think those workshops or those types of calls can are the best case but the most common case of being Clos mode or the Clos mode where that’s the time we need to be the most open we usually go go into that like okay you need these kpis and these metrics or we’re putting together this project plan so let’s go through the requirements and requirements Yeah by definition sounds like close mode but there’s such a big part of there where you just start again

48:11 part of there where you just start again like what do you want what would this look like if if it wasn’t a bar chart if it was something that was slapped on your desk every day what would it be and that idea I think is by default is a little more creative you think data your first thought is closed in closed closed mode one one other video that I saw on YouTube was talking about imagine the the desert island effect I don’t remember exactly who said it but it’s

48:41 remember exactly who said it but it’s bringing to a light to mine here you’re on a desert you’re on a deserted island you can only be sent five kpis a day how do your business is healthy distill it down right you can you can sometimes there’s paralysis by analysis what’s going on how’s everything working like what’s what are the five key things that we care about that can let us know if we are on the right track or not how much money’s coming in how much money’s going out and what’s our forecast look like there’s there’s probably some very basic numbers

49:13 there’s probably some very basic numbers people think about but it’s it’s taking that mindset of like okay let’s distill let’s let’s think simply let’s let’s you let’s let’s think simply let’s let’s use creativity to get know use creativity to get yourself in a place where you can you simplify a bit and then maybe that helps clarify the direction on where you’re going I I really like that I have a hot take I want to see if you’re going to agree or disagree I’ll say it I’ll State why and we’ll see how much you can get on board Microsoft Fabric and powerbi adoption relies on being

49:44 powerbi adoption relies on being creative to be successful and this is why the people involved are always different the processes in the technology are always different no matter if you have the best practices in front of you the project to get that started the project to implement that while it may follow the white paper it may follow Workshops the people involved and getting the right people involved in the messaging needed relies on

50:17 creativity that’s a good question well you’re your hot take is do I agree with it or disagree with it yeah and I’m using the word strongly that’s what relies on creativity not it’s helpful relies on creativity to be successful so per every Microsoft answer ever it depends and the reason I say is this

50:47 depends and the reason I say is this the Microsoft ecosystem allows for you to develop Solutions in many different ways and we’ve even talked about this fabric does the same thing there’s a lot of different ways to move data around there’s a lot of different ways to visualize to whatever the case may be right does it rely on people to be creative no and the reason I say that is because what just like this conversation where we’re pushing

51:14 conversation where we’re pushing ourselves and others to figure out those areas where they need to have more creative sessions to come up with the better best solution I think the vast majority of solutions that I’ve seen even are people who are closed they learn only the thing that they need and they start building and that results in Solutions but they’re not the best and it’s the exact same example that John produced in in this talk which was there was a guy he got some directive he went and wrote

51:44 and wrote something he versus John went got it pondered it came up with the best solution and then wrote it in this case this same applies do you understand the ecosystem of fabric do you understand all of these things that Encompass this solution and how do you better fit these together for your organization because that’s a variable in here it’s not it’s not a one-size fits-all because if it was Microsoft

52:15 fits-all because if it was Microsoft would come out with here’s how you use our programs this is how you build things and that is not the case there’s flexibility and that’s where I say yes I agree agree creativity like the solutions that come out of here are amazing when you are creative and coming up with the best solutions for your business but I’ve seen both so it depends yeah I’m gonna it’s it’s hard to nail down a

52:45 down a single point in all this so I’m going to say I’m going to say it this way the technology needs to be flexible enough to handle many any Creative Solutions to get to the same answer I think if I think when you really just still businesses down and and think about them what they need most of the time is very similar the needs are similar we have there’s there’s a do there’s a model there’s some data that is being conformed in a way that makes sense for the powerbi report to run efficiently we

53:16 the powerbi report to run efficiently we have if we think about our business in terms of like dimensions and factual things it’s much easier to think about your your your business organization in those terms now your facts and your Dimensions will be totally different between businesses and the and the political nature and I feel like most of the work around business intelligence is political in nature it’s the people part it’s very it’s very easy to use the technology it’s very difficult to get the people to align on a direction to go to the same to run the same way using the technology pieces so

53:46 same way using the technology pieces so what what does fabric do what does parbi do I think what fabric and powerbi do it it allows you to maximize your creativity to solve a wide variety of problems in a consistent way and that just literally popped out of my head randomly so that but it doesn’t force people to be creative using Microsoft Solutions it just Solutions it’s not required yeah I would say it’s what I’m hesitating is I don’t

54:17 say it’s what I’m hesitating is I don’t I wouldn’t say I need to go fire I need to go hire a more creative person to get to the solutions that we need to run our business like that’s what I’m hesitating on like I don’t feel like that’s what I want to say yeah case in point we have powerbi we have powerbi Tommy and we unleash that to the business are these creative people building the best Solutions on Microsoft taging Technology that’s why would have jobs no they’re get majority getting things done getting getting the

54:47 getting things done getting getting the insights they need in rudimentary ways people are going to do it in Excel whether you like it or not so like they’re already being creative creative that ain’t creative so doesn’t say not saying it doesn’t happen I I I would make the argument while not necessarily required like you have to know Dax and data modeling to build a report you have to do that being creative in the adoption or having that part of your team is going to show more success than

55:17 team is going to show more success than not and is I would I will okay I would make an the argument at least it would be significant success that’s not a Microsoft thing I think that’s the outcome of this conversation that we’re recommending which is this is very valuable remember to do it like remember to take the step back remember like here’s some ideas if you guys aren’t familiar like in meetings do it yourself do you have these big things Ponder them think about them like use

55:49 Ponder them think about them like use your whiteboard like all those I think are what is a byproduct of of this because there ‘s much more value on the other side of doing that I’m an agreement I love it I have some some jokes we can end on some a little more life J let’s let’s not do final thoughts let’s just do final jokes on this one so let’s let’s wrap with a couple final jokes before we get there though before we get what are what are some specific report build process areas that that we can you you think would

56:20 that that we can you you think would push for like hey take some creative time for me I think upfront requirements Gathering like in that interaction and that like to me this speaks it’s probably the easiest point but also one that strikes me is in the model design area and building calculations for visuals so model design meaning like is this efficent like what’s the most efficient way do I need how can I restructure this data to yep be performant what are like what are the types of visual choices I have that are

56:50 types of visual choices I have that are going to impact what calculations I make as opposed to just slap it together I need to do this sum this calculate this whatever and then but if you if you think more intentionally in that space I think you’re not think you will save a lot of time and money I I would agree with your two points there as well I think your upfire up upfront requirements Gathering is a creative session that is an open area and needs to be done and treated so in in a healthy way and getting a lot of

57:20 in a healthy way and getting a lot of people’s inputs too many times we’re given an Excel sheet and say build this and there there’s no reason to why we’re trying to build this and I think there needs to be more creativity around why we’re doing what we’re doing so I 100% agree with that one the other other one I would add is be creative creative in your your user groups be creative in your building your data culture some data cultures in certain companies will will be able to be built with just meetings and regular meetings open Office hours that might work other organizations are a bit more structured

57:51 organizations are a bit more structured and may have to have a different way of thinking about it so I would try to treat those the d The Learning and education of your data culture using these tools treat it in a creative way trying to figure out creative ways to approach how do you engage people give them the excitement of hey we want to do this because it’s going to save us time and money to answer your question Seth one big thing I actually learned from Paul turle is any reporting solution or really any data solution we always have a Sandbox phase in the beginning where it’s not afraid to go back after report

58:22 it’s not afraid to go back after report requirements to ask well why why are you using this metric or hey we put together a framework here but let’s really massage this together let’s really have a conversation here and multiple Pages like again if no idea is a bad idea take the Liberty in that beginning stage to go I know you asked for this but I’m trying to figure out for you how you’re going to use this so we have a few other Frameworks here that’s a great idea rather than going you wanted a bar chart and here’s your kpi it’s like well how else are you

58:52 your kpi it’s like well how else are you using this and don’t be afraid to ask those questions all right I like it with that let’s do final jokes Tommy and wrap us up all right how many machine learning experts does it take to change the light bulb just one but it’ll take thousands of tries to do it proper how many report requesters does it take to change the light bulb none they’ll just ask for a daily report on the status of the light bulb but never replace it oh that’s a good one and it’ll have to be emailed to your inbox every day just email me a

59:23 inbox every day just email me a picture of the light bulb every morning how many bi Consultants does it take to screw a light bulb two one to assure the client they leveraging Cutting Edge light bulb technology and the other the Outsource to an intern yes that’s spot on oh my gosh well I think we’ll end on that one I got that’s awesome yeah Tommy will now have bi light bul jokes. com it’s GNA be coming down the pipeline soon so tips

59:53 be coming down the pipeline soon so tips joke. tip joke. tip Tommy we should we should if nothing else we should take this episode we should we should make a blog post about it and you should just list out all the jokes you’ve got and just stick them there and at least we’ll just write them down for you people can refer to them later so awesome thank you all very much for listening we appreciate your listenership if this was a good creative Divergence away from your structured time we really appreciate you letting somebody else know that this was a good thought-provoking creative space for you to think about things around parbi we’d like to encourage you to share this with other people as well get them

60:23 with other people as well get them involved get them thinking creatively around their powerbi and their ecosystem Tommy where else can you find the podcast you can find us in the open mode on Apple Spotify wherever get your podcast make sure to subscribe and leave a rating helps us out a ton do you have a question an idea or a topic that you want us to talk about in a future episode head over to power. tips podcast leave your name and a great question join us live every Tuesday Thursday a. m. Central and join the conversation on all of PBI tips social media Chan

60:54 on all of PBI tips social media Chan channels awesome with that thank you all very much appreciate it and we’ll talk to you next [Music] time

61:24 time [Music] [Music] I

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