Power BI Org Apps – Ep. 384

Mike, Tommy, and Seth break down the new Org Apps experience in Power BI and how it changes the way you package and ship content to your organization. They cover practical setup patterns, governance considerations, and what to watch for as the feature continues to evolve.

News & Announcements

• Get started with Org Apps (Preview) in Power BI — Microsoft’s Org Apps (as items) preview rebuilds workspace apps as a first-class Fabric item type, enabling multiple org apps per workspace and more consistent management alongside reports, dashboards, and other assets. If you’ve been trying to package content for different audiences without duplicating workspaces, this doc is the best starting point for understanding the model, permissions, and rollout considerations.

• Subscribe / listen to the Explicit Measures Podcast — Catch the live show (Tues/Thurs) and grab links to the audio platforms so you can listen wherever you normally do podcasts. It’s also a handy landing page for sharing the show with coworkers who want the “why” behind Power BI features.

• Join Tips+ (Theme Generator) — The PowerBI.tips theme generator helps you build polished, consistent report themes without hand-editing large JSON files. If your team is standardizing report design across departments, a repeatable theme workflow can save a lot of time and reduce visual drift.

Main Discussion: Power BI Org Apps

This episode focuses on the Org Apps experience: what it is, why it exists, and how it impacts the way teams publish and distribute content inside Power BI/Fabric. Mike, Tommy, and Seth dig into how Org Apps can make content distribution more intentional — not just “share the report,” but package the right reports, navigation, and experience for a defined audience.

What Org Apps Are (and What They Replace)

Org Apps are positioned as a modernization of the traditional “workspace app,” rebuilt as an item in Fabric. The big idea is making apps feel more modular and manageable, so you can create and maintain multiple app experiences from a single workspace without cloning content or creating a maze of redundant workspaces.

Packaging for Multiple Audiences

A recurring theme is audience design: executives, sales, finance, and operations often need different landing experiences even when they’re consuming the same underlying semantic models or shared report assets. Org Apps encourage building purposeful bundles of content (and navigation) that match how users actually work.

Governance, Ownership, and Operational Patterns

The conversation also hits the operational side — who owns the Org App, how access should be managed, and how this fits into a governed workspace strategy. The group talks through why consistency matters (naming, release cadence, and change control) so apps don’t become yet another unmanaged publishing surface.

Looking Forward

Org Apps are one of the clearer signs that Fabric is continuing to unify “content delivery” around item-based management. If you’re already standardizing workspaces, deployment pipelines, and audience-based sharing, Org Apps may become the missing piece that makes report distribution cleaner for end users.

Episode Transcript

0:35 good morning and welcome back to the explicit measures podcast with Tommy Seth and Seth and Mike good morning and Merry Christmas happy holidays from the explicit measures podcast I feel like we’re going to be saying that a lot bonala for your Italians out there happy holidays Merry Christmas dude feels good I yeah I hope you guys had a good one this is the first year with the kids were I feel like I did pretty good I don’t know if you guys feel like this pretty good related to what oh oh

1:07 pretty good related to what oh oh presents the present so I don’t know if you’ve ever felt like this with whether you give a gift to your spouse or a friend but I’m very much on the use the utility of that gift I have seen kids get very excited for something they only use for two days I hate that so what we’re going to be trying what we actually did this year and the kids are gone now so and they already know but what we actually did was Mark Rober like I know who that is I so we got the mark Rober box the

1:40 is I so we got the mark Rober box the crunch Labs thing which is basically like kids for engineers yeah but then they love dude perfect we’re literally a family who went from Disney to dude perfect that’s what they watch and they’re coming to Chicago so literally we have in there the dude perfect game like because they actually have a board game which is pretty cool they’re going to open that up go this is amazing I can’t imagine anything better than that and it’s going to say and then when they open it there’s going to be a little Panda like this going see you in July because we’re

2:10 this going see you in July because we’re gonna see live oh that’ll be good that’s exciting so I I and there’s a few other things but they’re all like there’s a cookbook for my daughter like it’s just stuff to be productive and that they’re going to use I don’t know how do you guys in how do you guys plan your presence well it changes I think as your kids get older so younger kids presents are simpler I guess they’re smaller you get a little bit more of them as they get older their prisons get more expensive so you kind

2:40 prisons get more expensive so you kind prisons get more expensive so you buy less of them as you go we’re not of buy less of them as you go we’re not buying cars yet right yeah a lot of it’s driven off of like Amazon Wish lists right so what do they have on their wish lists push them towards okay what things you want cuz it’s easier to like share a single list to everyone and say Here’s the things that they’re looking for but it’s a mix of toys and clothes and things like that it’s that’s how our family does it yeah like we ours are still a little younger but yeah I agree with Mike like we try to make them so that like there’s some games that last right so

3:11 there’s some games that last right so family can play the games and stuff that they’re tied up doing something or building something or yes for the day so it’s not like rip her presents open now what right well now you go play with your thing that’s going to take you at least away from us for two hours or something or with each other right as a family so and then you got your outdoor things or sports related things or whatever you sports related things or whatever but yeah I and then Tommy tier know but yeah I and then Tommy tier Point we’ve Lucy my my wife is really

3:42 Point we’ve Lucy my my wife is really big on the experiences so like last year I was GNA ask I add that on ours yeah last year and didn’t pickup I think we started a little too young but we we got like we did a bunch of keychains right that are experiences and then they could pick which one they wanted as on didn’t take out we’ll we revisit it again I’m sure but we we’re doing something similar where they’re one of the gifts is an experience and I love that because even if they they’re not crazy about it now when they’re like 35

4:12 crazy about it now when they’re like 35 they’re going to tear up every time they see those key chains like my dad and mom this is yeah so but and I I love that because most toys that you can get them you probably have maybe got them throughout the year but it’s nothing that it’s going to be all year that they’re going to say I play this every day there are few and far between I would I yes I agree with you 100% Tommy and I would say one of the very few toys that we buy our kids that usually gets continually played with is the sets of Legos so anytime sets of

4:43 the sets of Legos so anytime sets of Legos seem to show up we have what we call like Lego tables in each of the kids’ rooms now so they all have enough Legos that they can like build things and so now they’re like we now challenge them a little bit hey you’re going to build XYZ thing how about you build like a and my daughter has a a what she calls the the the skyscraper so she’s built a basically taken like a a a pad a square of guess it’s one of those green squares right and on the green square she builds an entire room so it’s like

5:13 she builds an entire room so it’s like this is the kitchen there’s like a table and some chairs and like a little stove then that’s that’s the room and then she builds another layer of the of the hotel or the the skyscraper and that’s another room here’s the bedroom for and then they what they do is they take them all out on the ground and they like lay them down on the ground and they play with them and then they build new things and then new toys show up but then they always add other things in there as well so just interesting like having them all pulled together but fairness is key I like

5:43 but fairness is key I like that them out and I can’t talk too loud because the kids are in the other room but it’s but it’s yeah it it’s that one of the things that we equivalent equivalent presence yes I good yeah and good well I’m happy to hear that I’m happy everything went well I want to talk more about the thing because we’ll do that offline and Legos will save that for January I went my first Lego Store Mike with the kids I’ve never seen kids Minds explode until we went to the LEGO store so yeah the

6:15 we went to the LEGO store so yeah the kid my kid’s into Technics just like just like mik oh that’s I love Technics he loves the hypercars this is great well do you guys get gifts what this I know we’re two well we’re close on time we’re doing great on time but I made a deal with my wife and Ne neither of us follow it but we said we’re not going to get each other gifts on Christmas Day because we don’t need that pressure and yet we still do it because it’s I feel like it’s one of those Unwritten like oh you

6:45 it’s one of those Unwritten like oh you got you got to do something but because my wife and I were very much on like what the season’s about and we’re like it’s not about the presents and we made a deal we even did a handshake deal that you neither of you follow I think that neither of follow so do you guys have like an an expectation with your friends or significant others on that we do but I don’t follow it same same thing Tommy yeah I

7:15 it same same thing Tommy yeah I it same same thing Tommy yeah yeah we we typically we do mean yeah we we typically we do gifts gifts yeah I don’t I I typically don’t follow it this is the first this is the first year where it I’m I’m following it in spirit like typical other years all I’ll go overboard in certain areas and it’s okay like she appreciates it yeah but yeah no a little bit obviously not as much as the kids but yeah so I I would say like we try again we have like a we don’t set like

7:47 have like a we don’t set like how many gifts as a requirement it’s more of like okay it’s a dollar amount okay each person gets a certain dollar amount you stay within that and then again it’s always like what am I good at buying I’m good at buying all the technology things so everyone seems to get good technology from dad cuz that’s what Dad knows how to buy my wife knows how to buy all the clothing things so if it’s good clothing options she’s the best at picking those things out so it was funny mixing our two families cuz her family always bought a couple good things of clothing from her family’s side my side

8:19 clothing from her family’s side my side always kept buying technology so it was like this really weird mix of like everyone was getting things for Christmas and it was a lot of mixed expectations in the beginning there because I was expecting to get a lot of like technology things at Christmas she was expecting get a lot of clothes things and we bought each other what we knew how to buy in the beginning so it was like thanks for the iPod IP yeah I it’s the big one it’s like 100 gigs in it like it’s amazing I they’re gonna say it’s got a scrolly wheel too SC wheel they you wheel too SC wheel they expectations didn’t quite land I

8:50 know expectations didn’t quite land I think the right way potentially on that one so that’s things we got to figure out out yeah anyways let’s get into our main topic today I think this is a good transition so this is for those of you who are jumping in our main topic is this is a recorded episode so we’re kind this is a recorded episode so we’re talking about things a little bit of talking about things a little bit early so we can get a bit of a break around the holidays but today we’re going to jump in and we’re going to talk a bit more around the organizational applications so we’ve had for a while now apps from a workspace and now

9:20 now apps from a workspace and now we’re talking about a new object that appears now in the workspaces it’s a little bit different how it behaves than what you previously have seen on workspace apps this is now an organizational or org app let’s jump in

9:32 organizational or org app let’s jump in there a little bit Tommy want to just give a quick overview of maybe like maybe I feel like we should do a little bit of a comparison between what is the workspace app and then we can start talking about what a work org app is and we can start maybe talking about some of the differences as well and we’re I believe we’re probably on the third iteration of what an app is in powerbi since the Inception of powerbi one of the biggest things if youve ever used an app is it’s basically

10:02 youve ever used an app is it’s basically the collection of content in your workspace meant for Consumer views now we’ve had the apps that they updated I believe in 2022 where we actually had a better navigation and user experience but some of the biggest complaints by not just us but everyone has been it’s good but the problem is if I have a large workspace I can only create one app for that workspace it was great when they introduced the app on audiences I that’s on my game changer list it might not be

10:32 on my game changer list it might not be on yours but that’s on my game changer list the app audiences because you could say this collection of content in the app for these group of people well this third iteration doesn’t have that limitation anymore because in fact you’re not tied one to one one workspace one app has been the playground we’ve played in since really apps have been available I can create as many apps as I want with any colle of content in that workspace available today and might to

11:03 workspace available today and might to your point unlike before where it was a setting on the top of the menu bar this acts just like any other fabric artifact I want to create a notebook and one of my other favorites is an org app and I can do so the other part too what was the content available in an app we had a report you had a scorecard you had a dashboard those are your three items that the consumer could experience and interact with well now we have notebook which is I know I think I feel it’s going to be a big part of our conversation I can put a notebook in an

11:34 conversation I can put a notebook in an org app and I can put real-time dashboards so I the biggest difference here that we’ve really seeing this comparison is we have the ability to create multiple apps in a single workspace we’re and I don’t there’s probably some limitation like 98 or something but one that we’re probably not going to reach and the fact that we have other artifacts here with the experience they they’re talking about doing some more here it looks like the colors have been updated because since the beginning we’ve had the like 12

12:04 the beginning we’ve had the like 12 colors I don’t know if we can what else is coming up but they said that we have a lot more planned so this is a big deal because again the reason it’s not just a product update is the biggest way organizations really deploy content to their organization is through an app and any way to make that experience better and more customizable is going to be better for the organization I would totally agree on that one that’s then couple things I want to point out here just off your initial run

12:35 here just off your initial run through the the feature here the previous workspace apps is a powerbi only feature powerbi specific right right the new organizational apps is a fabric only feature no it’s it’s only a fabric related thing exactly so this is the or apps are I believe only available in fabric well it is on the powerbi blog I’m not about but in in the notes there

13:05 I’m not about but in in the notes there towards the end it says where are the differences and so or org apps are only a fabric related things one light Trend I’m seeing here is Microsoft is I think going to continue building and developing things that are focusing themselves solely inside fabric it’s going to be a fabric bent or spin or however you want to C align that it’s going to be continually be a fabric specific world for them they’re going to keep building more things for the fabric environment

13:35 things for the fabric environment at least yeah it’s the premium premium experience right you’re going to have access to the artifacts and other things within there that are in fabric right so like that that makes a lot of sense what do what is if if the workspace app is all external facing and yeah Tommy I agree like audiences within the workspace app the container for all report it it is the way I share everything it’s just especially as it relates to like how

14:06 especially as it relates to like how I’ve found end users interacting with things that have been shared with them they never go to their landing page it’s always through the links that they’re sent right so it’s it bizarre me but it’s like hey you can find all your content like if you just go to app powerbi. com like go where didn’t you share that report with me and and now I have this bucket you have a link to all of the rep I’m ever going to share with you and they’re in this app and that’s what’s nice does the audience change for these two in your guys’s mind like

14:38 for these two in your guys’s mind like the the app audiences feature versus the org org apps so yeah that’s a great question my initial reaction to that is no I don’t think the audience is changing I think it’s still the same concept of You’re Building content and you’re Distributing that content out to external consumers users of that or app I think the creator of this SL is going to be happier because they can build a larger workspace with more content in it potentially more reports in folders all

15:09 potentially more reports in folders all inside One Singular workspace and you can then bundle together different aspects pull them together and pull them out into the OR Gap so I think I think from that aspect the Creator gets a changed experience but I don’t think the consumer gets a changed experience for my opinion I don’t know you maybe you were thinking something different there Tommy what do you think yeah I I think it’s really actually three the three ways that you primarily use an app audience with security experience for the user if you want to change the content or if you’re testing things out but I think this is going to be changed differently Mike because one of the big

15:41 differently Mike because one of the big changes too that I’m sure we’ll get into is also the propagation of content in a org app compared to a workspace app and this is a major thing too so let’s say I share something that has build access how that actually then propagates the ability for a user to build on other pieces of content we all know how works on the workspace app we it propagates throughout it but it’s customized differently for an or app where if a user’s access granted to an org app results in content and for

16:13 org app results in content and for included items it can also include those semantic models but what’s different with the org app is we have automatic rication of semantic model access or a revocation of semantic model access and that’s a big deal to me because the app audiences are are phenomenal and they do act like the apps they really do and at least that’s how we’ve treated them but the security feature you may not have 17 apps in your

16:43 feature you may not have 17 apps in your organization but if you have a large workspace you’re probably gonna have two right it’s and it’s not going to be for every app that I’m going to be creating an org app for or multiple org apps for but the security feature here is probably the biggest difference where people also want to customize that inter it’s interesting I guess that you say it’s the same audience because the first thing that struck me when I look at or gaps was oh well that that that makes a ton of sense from a I I’m I want to

17:14 ton of sense from a I I’m I want to share content that’s in my fabric ecosystem with other people in New York right and and we have this ability to like if we’re creating domains of data within fabric Within my workspace my I’m the owner right right I want to share content with other people in the organization rather than just giving them direct share access to certain data artifacts is this the mode by which you we should share content right because

17:46 we should share content right because now I can almost tailor it to some degree where maybe maybe Mike is Mike get access to it all but you is Mike get access to it all but the sales group only needs know the sales group only needs commercial team only needs access to 34s of it and this team only needs access to half of it and now I can control that in the this very familiar experience where I’m pulling the things they need access to together I don’t

18:16 they need access to together I don’t know what are you guys thoughts on that yeah my first thought when I when I read or saw the introduction of org apps was if I had four app audiences well I’m just going to train I’m going to migrate to four org app that was the initial thought that I had but I’m thinking more and more and seeing the utility here that’s not the case right so if I had four security branches for my workspace app the original one then I probably can keep the app audiences because it really

18:48 keep the app audiences because it really the last thing you also want to do is introduce to the consumers where they already probably have 10 to 15 apps that they have access to now multiply that by three right or multiply that by that two it’s like Marketing sales marketing

19:03 it’s like Marketing sales marketing operations where it can get very convoluted and I think that’s something to be aware of is just because you can create as many hour gaps as you want well if every workspace is now in a sense multiplying by two or by three that becomes very crowded and that’s I think one of the concerns I would have off the bat of just changing up audiences to an orap what are yeah let me back up a second maybe I maybe I misunderstood something so if workspace apps can only

19:33 something so if workspace apps can only contain like reports and sematic models mhm or apps can also contain those yes and more and more in notebooks and realtime dashboards oh that’s interesting notebooks I think more because now they have this whole concept of like a read or a view only notebook right so I think when you go into so I think that I think the addition of a element here that is hey this is a readon notebook and now we’re

20:03 this is a readon notebook and now we’re going to push that readon notebook in there I think my opinion here is people are liking the story of AR architecting multiple text phrases you can have images you can have interactive visuals you can even render a report inside a notebook inside the context of that notebook so there’s a whole bun of extra elements in that notebook that you can make enrich that story but then people can’t edit the notebook they can just see the content of the notebook so I think in there there’s actually something more powerful well you’re now interweaving some python markdown

20:33 interweaving some python markdown writing some visual things in there directly in the notebook and showing people what’s directly in that notebook piece I think there’s an opportunity there there actually yeah I would I guess what’s interesting to me is the crossover because I would have thought or gaps would be more of the a different Persona and maybe reports belong in there but it’s like I’m I I would like I said I like more of a the data access in building building components right because if I already

21:03 components right because if I already have workspace apps why would I why would I include everything from workspace apps in org apps I see I see what you’re saying now like this to me this was a container for all of the other data engineering objects within Fabric or availability and access to things in a more refined way rather than just saying like oh yeah we’ve got these artifacts and whoever grants permissions to them through the data catalog Etc

21:34 through the data catalog Etc but no it’s more we’re going to build these things and these things are for the extended organization and now we bucket them in an or Gap that is where my thought was like to to then throw in reports semantic models Etc I maybe that makes sense but so if I’m picking up what you’re putting down here what you’re basically saying in so many words is we’re not moving houses we just bought a ski resort we have a summer home as well it’s an addition to not necessarily A migration from is that what that’s way I I I just

22:07 from is that what that’s way I I I just I F I feel like this is an enhancement or a Bolton thing as opposed to a replacement for so that that consideration didn’t come up to me at all it would have to be it would have to be anyway because workspace apps are are innately built into powerbi for external facing sharing experiences whereas this is premium driven it’s fabric right right so you have to have a capacity that supports it and it’s intriguing too with the The Notebook idea here too right so let’s I think there’s two scenarios here there’s scenario a or

22:39 scenarios here there’s scenario a or option one where we’re going to migrate our current worksspace APP and we’re going to migrate that to the org app better C if only because of some of the enhanced features from a user experience customiz the customized sidebar and they’re going to probably focus on that we’re not going to add notebooks at the at the given start on the launch we’re going to keep the same user experience but we’re going to have the org apps for those audiences just in a more enhanced experience

23:10 just in a more enhanced experience option B is in a sense that summer home where we’re building the the in-law suite where this is a much more data driven type of experience because we’re going to include notebooks in here and we’re keeping that separate from the other content I feel like those are kind other content I feel like those are the two options at least on launch of the two options at least on launch that you’d want to do this in your organization I I don’t think there’s option three or this the third option which would be we’re g to do everything all in one I don’t think you would do that on start so what are your guys

23:41 that on start so what are your guys thoughts there in terms of how you’d actually then introduce this to a wider audience or an organization but I think you’re my my opinion here is I think you’re you’re jumping into like how do I teach my organization how to use them I’m thinking about not necessarily the story of teaching them but just what do you put put in them like what would be the end goal of the organizational application pieces my opinion is the organizational app is going to be and we have to have all the things all the things of fabric right so things that I think it’s missing right now is there’s

24:11 think it’s missing right now is there’s these things called Explorations where you’re just making a single table and it’s a single Visual and you can play with stuff that should be there maybe we should be able to add in a metric set here’s a metric set where you can build your own little table on top of a subset of a of a semantic model where’s paginated ports they’re they’re not there you can’t embed them I would argue the embedding of the real-time dashboards okay interesting like but how many of those do I have lay around so yes those need to be part of it so my impression is the

24:42 it so my impression is the organizational apps is the replacement to what a regular workspace application is in the context of fabric right it does make sense to have you in powerbi context you have no no notion of a notebook you have no notion of some of these artifacts that will appear inside the workspace and who knows what other third party visuals will show up in there there’s there’s this whole workloads experience what if someone else builds other visualization experiences inside your workspace using

25:12 experiences inside your workspace using a a workload how can I get those into the application so to me like that would be a better experience in general would be like all of the things that are producing content visually or trying to display information notebooks had reports reports Explorations third party workload visualization stuff all of that stuff should be able to be bolted directly into the OR app because that I think that best utilizes all the the features and capability of the the fabric right

25:44 and capability of the the fabric right that’s why we went to fabric to get all these extra things in it I’m going to go slightly conservative here because it’s funny that you bring up the three other there’s really now five content Centric or consumer Centric artifacts in powerbi yes right there’s dashboards reports notebooks what you said metric sets and then you said the Explorer two and I think those are all one and now a real time dashboard right so it’s six which is insane and if if I

26:16 so it’s six which is insane and if if I were to start conservative here right where if you were to have that all in a single app my initial thought here or let’s say the initial concern that I would I have is we already have trouble getting people to get used to multiple reports in a single app jumping from that experience oh we didn’t say notebooks it’s seven it’s actually seven so I believe so that’s seven different experiences right that would all be in a single place for a wide audience I would

26:47 single place for a wide audience I would have a big I would have a lot of hesitation initially if I were to do that even if my workspace had all those artifacts right I had a page report I had a notebook I had the explore feature that’s a lot of content really bundled into one single app potentially that’s why we have the multiple or apps right you have a consumer high level point of view which is my reports and metrics for the really viewer experience we have the who wants

27:17 viewer experience we have the who wants to play in the playground experience with the explore and notebooks but my initial concern here is you put this all in one that’s a lot of content and a lot of different cognitive load on so especially someone doesn’t have an experience in seven of those consumer experiences so okay so my answer so what’s the point teach your team how to do it like you’re what you’re looking at is you’re looking at a look at where people are right now and they are today currently in or gaps okay

27:49 they are today currently in or gaps okay like that to me that’s a m a moot point in my opinion because it’s like well they don’t know how to use it fine then that’s on you to teach them so you can use the things like me as a designer or a builder of org apps I want to pick whatever I want right I may have an org app that’s audience is heavy data engineering or something like that I may only put notebooks in a in a or Gap and send that out to a group of people I may have a different audience of people that only can handle reports and I’ll only give them RBI reports that may be a bit of paginated so they can export things

28:19 of paginated so they can export things so again I don’t think you have to have this like concern around who’s the audience or what do they need to know I think you should focus on like what should you do with the features and then work backwards from there and say okay

28:34 work backwards from there and say okay this is this is an effective way of visualizing and pushing out data let’s work with that team figure out what they need to know so they can use my dashboard in a good way so I I I understand your point around the concern around there but that’s that’s a data culture training thing issue more so than the feature of the thing so if I focus on the feature part I I would like to focus more on like my opinion here is make the Feature Part richer and we’ll figure out the training to get the people up to speed that’s easily

29:06 people up to speed that’s easily solvable solvable versus it just doesn’t render like so one other thought I think that’s interesting here is in the old or apps you could only pick like nine colors in the in the new or sorry in the old workspace app you can only pick like one of nine colors you could only have so many icons that showed up they fixed that in this one you can have any any icon you want you just go figure it out and then in addition to that you can pick any color there’s not a Color Picker you can pick any color any hex

29:36 Picker you can pick any color any hex color code all the so they’re solving all the what I would call the friction points that we had previously by giving us all the correct features this time and I hope some of these features in the org apps actually roll back to the original one and say hey look we’re not going to make you just pick six colors in the app here here’s an actual Color Picker to let you pick whatever color you you want the traditional powerbi it is it is a different feature experience though completely because the workspace app is a feels more like an

30:08 a feels more like an implementation fit for purpose for the lay report consumer right and the reason I say that is like it’s it’s a versioned copy of whatever is in the workspace or gaps are not like you don’t have that versioning right so all of that is just whatever is live in the workspace which could could serve a better purpose from the standpoint that if you already have a Dev test prod or a test prod workspace like having the the workspace app is just another click of

30:39 workspace app is just another click of like yeah of course I want to update the app right whereas now this is the real versions of the thing in the workspaces so that is different from from the two different from the experiences the other thing that’s unique unique here is with the addition of notebooks and I guess like access is that this appears to go across the boundaries of workspaces to give read

31:11 boundaries of workspaces to give read access to models or other artifacts that are part of this share in other workspaces right which is confusing yeah that again so it just a a bullet point in the documentation if a report is built on a semantic model in a different workspace users who are given access to an org app are automatically granted access to the model in the different workspace with workspace apps or app authors had to

31:43 workspace apps or app authors had to manually manage access to models in a different workspace gotcha so it trims that a little bit but it also does extend outside the bounds of the artifact that was shared within the the context of this or app so there’s a new sharing mechanism for other apps get access to the items inside this or graphs experience that’s that’s one thing I haven’t played with a lot a lot of what I build is semantic models and apps and reports all in the

32:14 models and apps and reports all in the same experience I don’t do a lot of building a lot of semantic models from other places and then Landing again I’m testing out org apps right now I don’t have anything in Productions in preview so I’m building a lot of test cases where all the centic mods are in one workspace but this would be a use case because we this is the guidance right the guidance of as you grow bigger and have certified stuff would be to have the works the semantic models in a different workspace and the reports in the final workspace but this is also a

32:44 the final workspace but this is also a this is a very important distinction because a lot of organizations that’s that’s the biggest question I’ve gotten when we rolled up powerbi about the apps is well if I give them access to this are they going to get everything else well no that’s a manual process still with semantic apps correct or or semantic apps that’s a that that’s coming out in 2028 semantic models semantic apps but it’s like no you manly have to give that access to that semantic model well now to your point this is by default automatic access

33:15 this is by default automatic access which is really important here because yeah and I think this goes in the transition too because and maybe some of this is because I’ve been scarred in the past when I was a lowly Dan analyst and when we released things too quickly when we didn’t realize all those little tentacles of limitations and what that would do from a feature point of view that you wouldn’t consider until it happens so a big part here too is if you’re rolling out the or apps the impact is great but these are your considerations if you’re especially if

33:45 considerations if you’re especially if you’re doing a migration right if I’m taking a workspace app and I’m gonna say I’m just G to copy paste this as an or app well it’s not going to be a straight copy and paste because we know the security is going to be a big part here all all these people are going to now have build access automatically that they preved into this is a big consideration that I I would put on here and I’m glad you said that Seth but this also may be a good for a discovery to an adoption I I I think it’s really important that we we made sure that

34:16 important that we we made sure that that’s a sticking point here because does that change a process at all and I I’ll pose that to you too if I’m aware that now it’s an automatic access to build apps and other works spaces not build it says read it’s read okay read I’m just double checking big difference right so I’m looking here I’m going for powerbi reports in an or app when you when the semantic model is associated in a different workspace the user gains read access to the semantic model

34:47 read access to the semantic model associated with the report or for or apps and preview even a semantic model in a different workspace users will gain access to that model and yeah it also notes down here other key differences here that when a user is removed from the org app the the org app automatically removes or revokes their permissions to read that semantic model from the other workspace so the orap permission plays a role into hey I’ve got these other semantic models you have read access while you have access to or

35:18 read access while you have access to or Gap and then once you’re access that was honestly that’s how I would expect it to behave right get access to the or Gap get read access to the model build what you need to build or look at what you’re going to view in the report and then as soon as you remove from the or Gap the the the original permissions to the semantic model are now the read is not longer is gone and that goes perfectly Mike with what you wanted last week with the one lay catalog yes where right so now and this is actually really cool this is actually great for adoption

35:48 this is actually great for adoption because now I think so if I have access to the semantic model read access that means I could go theoretically I could go into the one L catalog I can view The Columns and I can do explore I can do all those features with the read access which is really neat that’s really great because now if I want to say what is the data behind this new report well it’s not a manual given so this actually is a really great thing for adoption and it’s good not it’s good to know it’s not just build here and I’d also argue like if you’re going

36:18 also argue like if you’re going to be giving out org apps anyways I I think everything that we’re talking about here is or apps stuff seems to me like this is the level we’re already we’re already paying attention to this stuff we’re already spending extra effort to like figure out the story how to distribute it give it to other people so I really do think we’re we’re trying to create a better story experience around what’s happening for those apps for other users but because of that we’re already doing a good job of making it certified documenting it putting Helper and tips across the org

36:48 Helper and tips across the org application we’re building this to be consumed my opinion here is org apps are things that are like certified content that’s the stuff you’re going to try to start Distributing and with this area and the reason I’m going this direction is I just did a session around Dax query View and there’s Now new Dax functions info info Dex info view measures info view columns those can immediately document all the measures and the columns and the relationships of the model and put it directly into the model itself so my opinion here is if

37:21 model itself so my opinion here is if you’re going to be publishing these apps out anyways if you’re doing report Pages there should always be some instructional sheet there should be information around the documentation that should be just part of the report anyways so to your point Tommy yes if you get read access to the model maybe you see it show up in one Lake and you could do some more exploration there but in reality I think you’re really trying to build better documentation in these reports anyways because I’m going to just give you access to the report I expect that report to be entirely self-sufficient for knowledge of the

37:52 self-sufficient for knowledge of the user and how to use the report I think mention I was going to talk about something with the certification or certified so that might be a little okay so you mentioned the certification here and it’s funny

38:06 the certification here and it’s funny when I first heard org apps and the blog article before I read anything my assumption was this was an app that would overlap work spaces or be more domain level and one of the questions I had here was well if I’m going to create an or app and now that we know what it is even regardless if that’s still contained to a single content in a workspace is certification a major feature here that we should be asking ourselves like in terms of hey or apps should be a little more special than just a workspace app here or we’re going

38:36 just a workspace app here or we’re going to separate our certified content into a special or app and because of the ability to I I feel like there’s an argument here to be made that because of the building crate multiple or apps and if I have any certified content in that workspace that should be separate it should be held in a different box than any other content that I have to not cause any confusion and to kind to not cause any confusion and to understand what we’re dealing with of understand what we’re dealing with here do you feel that way at all because

39:07 here do you feel that way at all because the ability if and not that we can create as many org apps as we want well let me let me give you some more lens on how I think about certification of things right so certific you can certify many different things now there’s even inside the endorsement of this particular org app you can endorse you can endorse the or Gap itself you can endorse the reports to be certified and you can endorse the semantic models to be certified or even I guess for that matter you could certify the lak house gold layer that

39:38 certify the lak house gold layer that you’re trying to pull everything from so if you think about a trickle down effect of what you think is certified or what content is coming from a certified area you really do want to think about the full story of that because it doesn’t make any sense to have a semantic model pulling from a work a a Lakehouse that technically is not certified you don’t have any process around it and when I have any process around it and when certified I’m thinking about the mean certified I’m thinking about the idea of there is a process the organization says there’s an owner associated with who’s producing this content that way when there’s a problem

40:09 content that way when there’s a problem there’s an issue or we have to go back and rebuild something the team can come back and say hey we know where to go get help from on this particular topic or area to fix things so me I’m thinking certified is stuff in your organization that is important enough for you to spend a lot of time and people to build yeah that’s what a very lousy explanation of this one but if I’m spending so much time and effort to build a certified report dog on it I better go figure out if this is a certified app and then I could say for

40:40 certified app and then I could say for the org app to be certified all the pieces of content to go into it must also be certified I think this is just a policy or a company Mantra there’s no reason at all why you couldn’t certified an app and not have and have content that’s not certified that that you don’t have a it’s not adhering to your process yeah there’s no such in my I agree with that there’s no such thing as an org app that’s certified with uncertified components it makes no sense to me well no yeah you

41:10 makes no sense to me well no yeah you can’t sque you can’t squeeze a certified juice out of a uncertified lemon correct I would like to make apple juice from an orange like this is what we’re talking about like it doesn’t make sense to me yeah however I would say in my in my mental model everything that is certified is stuff that we’re spending real time real people like real effort to make it good that’s the stuff that we should be focusing on saying okay since we’re spending so much effort to make this report amazing clean the data get a good semantic model build all

41:40 data get a good semantic model build all these things you’ve already spent all the effort why not add just a little bit more rigor around it and say okay we’re going to certify this content totally so that’s that’s why I’m going down that certified route and I’m thinking yeah you can pop up bunch of org apps that are not certified but there’s tagging too so you could tag it with stuff like P yeah and that that’s fine but again the question remains do you now that you have the ability to do you create two apps one that has your certified content one that does not I think the answer is yes I

42:11 not I think the answer is yes I think there’s like if you’re doing things in preview but you have to also remember like the items in the or so this is also a big difference between workspace apps and org apps M when you’re using the org app you’re physically pointing the organizational app to the artifacts of the works one thing I think that was a miss here in the workspace apps is when you create a workspace app it takes a copy of all the reports and so there’s a versioning experience between the reports but there is no version experience for like the semantic model so in the old powerbi

42:43 semantic model so in the old powerbi workspace always a fun one to explain to people it’s like it’s so confusing like if you change this model away from what you published that report earlier you could break the report but the report in the workspace is actually different from that one process yeah are you guys are you guys are you guys moving towards or gaps gaps then not because it’s in preview but definitely heavily experimenting with it and figure out what the surface area looks like yeah so I I think my opinion

43:13 looks like yeah so I I think my opinion here is again there’s a couple good that’s a great question Seth right you have to be on fabric you have to be comfortable using apps already I think to some degree and this is just a evolution of what an app will look like differently inside the fabric space so yes I’m I’m looking at where does this make sense to apply but I don’t not every organization is I think ready to Bull on have fabric everywhere and start ripping out or gaps everything Mike I’m leaning with you where this is not a time yet to now do the we’re coming to

43:45 time yet to now do the we’re coming to America type of migration where everybody is everything is must go to an or app yeah really it’s I I think it’s pilot testing I’m probably not touching touching certification yet in terms of like the orap what we’re talking about it’s a great idea but not that I ain’t touching touching certification preview there’s no overlap there so well I think the the two distinctions because I do want to lean into the preview part of this but in in the long term what you’re seeing

44:15 in the long term what you’re seeing already do you see yourselves moving more towards or gaps versus th% yes I definitely I think I’m going to be seriously considering it especially with the addition of notebooks yeah view only are pretty dang powerful it it adds the data access layer to these things that isn’t like rather than a tailored experience of reporting it can be both right so I think it’s very powerful that for the analysts or the folks that are deep in wanting to do their own analysis and see the reports

44:45 their own analysis and see the reports and and right yes this is this is you and and right yes this is this is opening up the capabilities to know opening up the capabilities to offer them more right and faster because if I can give you a notebook that’s a query of the Delta table or whatever the case under underneath the covers yeah like go go pull your data I I think it is extremely powerful related to the preview I where do I go with all technical documentation gentlemen the limitations considerations and limitations I’m not I’m not gonna I’m not like and I can get pessimistic about it but I I do think there’s two two call

45:17 it but I I do think there’s two two call outs one is probably a little bit more to be aware of right out in the gate the first is while with semantic models like in reports we can see the lineage into the other workspace or get access to it you can’t do that with paginated yet less of a big deal depending on how much you use paginated I think the largest kind largest gotcha right is as you’re exploring of gotcha right is as you’re exploring org apps this this bit in the note of

45:47 org apps this this bit in the note of documentation I’m just going to read because I think it has some significance to it if you start deplo this it’s it relates to the access that you’re like the permissions and the access revocation so if I’m if I’m going to go into this and I’m going to use or gaps and I assign a user like a group of users to this thing and I’m testing things out then I blow away the or Gap this is where it becomes very relevant in its current state org apps propagate access to fabric items such as real-time

46:19 access to fabric items such as real-time dashboard notebook items included in the app but do not yet revoke access automatically when a user loses access to an or app or those items are removed from the or app manage access removal of these items from each items permission management page so what this means is if you’re like oh man I’m going to create an or app and I just like assigned 50 things into this orap and I just gave it to 50 users and then I’m going to blow

46:49 to 50 users and then I’m going to blow it away you’ve got to go this is saying you got to go into each one of those items and remove the 50 user like that a mess man yeah I would agree yes yeah I’m with you that’s a great call out that you make there Seth because that’s a that that is a ver flag in my opinion about yeah if you can’t you can’t not both ways guys like like no yeah you should if I’m giving you a notebook and I’m giving it to you through the org app as soon as you’re

47:19 through the org app as soon as you’re out of the org app or the org app to deletes itself access should be removed 100% and I don’t mean to be it could be it could be just read access to I don’t really know like it doesn’t really be descriptive around so this is a good testing Point Seth like put some people in an or G app push it out do they just get read access to those artifacts

47:37 get read access to those artifacts because the argument potentially could be made here of you already had read access in the org app if you go back the workspace if again if you don’t have access to the workspace I would assume your read access to the item may not be there I don’t know we have to look at like the one L Hub or the analytics Hub maybe it would appear somewhere in your favorites or something like that somewhere else in your ecosystem I don’t really know how that would work but that being said like I’m I think I would be more amenable to this if they everyone just gets read access

48:08 if they everyone just gets read access to all the things and you’re not giving them like hey here’s the notebook and now you can go make changes in the notebook yeah gets messy go ahead well I the the the word of caution here though though is I said I wasn’t going to be like super into it but like the word of caution here is like okay so I’m doing some testing create an org app I do what I just described I grant access to a bunch of things and then I blow away the org app and then I have a bunch of users with access to things and then the admin comes along and goes why the hell do all

48:38 comes along and goes why the hell do all these people have access to things that they shouldn’t have access to and you have no record of how they got access to it yeah and it’s correct messy really quickly because and Mike we’ve never had the propagation of a notebook right so a notebook’s usually binded or has a primary Lakehouse if I’m reading access to that does that include it in here right like in terms of the propagation do you have access to the reading of the lake lake house is this is frustrating because it is Christmas so I don’t want to be too

49:08 is Christmas so I don’t want to be too pessimistic but that limitation alone almost becomes a nonstarter to me really trying to release it at all right because that’s just just word of caution more than a word of caution here if I am sharing three cement three reports that are tied to three semantic models and they’re in three different workspaces I have to literally write this down in a Word document before I I want to point it out yep right point it out y this is that I think this is a great point out that is critical right

49:39 great point out that is critical right now so I would also maybe Point here as well this is also probably one of these areas where I think many organizations do not have foundational solid knowledge around how who has access to what stuff yeah there’s not good reporting to really that and to your point Seth like if there’s a if there’s a workspace and you’re pulling out or gaps from stuff and you’re sharing things from that workspace to me that workspace is now important enough that you need to monitor who’s got access to what things anyways this should be part of a

50:09 anyways this should be part of a quarterly or weekly review anyways and this is the downside of having powerbi and fabric in front in front of you it’s easy to create a lot of things it’s much more difficult to remove and clean up access and and deprecate things I think you have to have some internal policy that’s going to really help clean permissions and users and items out of there is this stuff really deprecated do we need to have people remov from access this is going to continue to happen I think over the time and if organizations don’t actually have good solid reporting around who has access to what content I

50:42 around who has access to what content I around who has access to what content you’re you’re going to need to have mean you’re you’re going to need to have better reporting around this one so Microsoft I think is going to give you better reporting eventually with admin monitoring it’s getting better as I’ve been seeing over the over the months it’s been improving but I think really to to your point Seth like I need need to go in and find when was that when was that order app created what do all the people have access to and I need to evaluate hey the or app is no longer is there anything else I need to quickly go remove access for and I I agree yeah I

51:12 remove access for and I I agree yeah I it I I find it I find it interesting that they would push this out in preview without that because when I don’t want to go over I’m I’m going overboard when you give a security dialogue when you’re giving permission sets and groupings of things what you’re basically saying is yeah it works in One Direction but not the other and if people don’t read the technical documentation they wouldn’t understand that it’s not working the way you’d want it to from a security perspective yeah that GRS me wrong I think that’s I think

51:43 that GRS me wrong I think that’s I think that’s a Miss I don’t think you push stuff out like that with with that as a caveat in a note at the end of your technical documentation it’s You’ push up you fix you’d fix that before preview preview that’s a have revocable access has to be resolved before you get to to p% you’re in preview great well we’re a testing because of that and and I think this is too we’re this is where we’re falling into a lot of this as amazing as it is with the amount of stuff getting pushed out and I just had a car I

52:14 pushed out and I just had a car I went to a Christmas party last weekend and I was talking to someone on the Amazon side of things it was my cousins cousin’s husband and I was talking about all the stuff in fabric it’s like how easy it is to create the artifact and he was like oh really you can CLE a lak housee just in the Microsoft system without the Azure re I’m like yeah it’s like it takes you three seconds he’s like that’s actually kind seconds he’s like that’s actually cool with all the things I think we of cool with all the things I think we still have to keep in mind and especially if you’re in an organization a larger organization it’s really great this is my closing thought too and I’ll

52:45 this is my closing thought too and I’ll be call good this is good I think we’re I think we’re at the place for closing thoughts and things as well that as amazing as all these features are and you see the blog article or you just see something pop up in fabric it’s important that you really keep those considerations in mind and again not saying don’t try it and don’t you have to wait till it’s out of preview but this is important we’ve just I think really touched on things that could make or break a lot of CFOs or CTO idea of what fabric is so keep

53:18 idea of what fabric is so keep in mind that but also I’m absolutely putting this as a test in a pilot program sure I’m not releasing this yet and I cannot wait until some of this is updated because I want to migrate everything to this I like that I agree with you I think you I’m with you Tommy I would really want to have so my final thoughts as well here like the feature I really like organizational apps my final thought here is it’s just not having to me to your point set I like your irrevocable access I’m leave you have that one is your final thought but my my final thought is it needs more stuff

53:50 final thought is it needs more stuff there there should be pagey reports in here it should be Explorations in here like if you’re going to give me an organizational app and it’s going to let me pull any content from the workspace let me pull everything and I think that’s probably a limitation of like look we can only get a couple things out the door let’s show some value with notebooks and maybe more things will come eventually I also have a really strong feeling here that workloads will build things I’m going to want to embed into my org apps so I really want the capability in the future

54:20 really want the capability in the future to have an org app include additional workloads especially if they’re visual workloads I think there’s going to be opportunity there for people to build stuff in that space as well so extend the amount of artifacts that are there make it larger and then Tommy and I will work on documentation to train people to know how to use all these different artifacts that are going to show up but right that’s that’s the power of the app of the org is like look you have all these things that are now

54:50 you have all these things that are now easily bundled together and documented in one item and it’s a single certified thing and so you have a single point of cont to not navigate all these that’s the point that’s why you want the orex to exist it’s a data experience all bundled together that’s what I really like yeah I think I think it has a lot of a lot of potential I like I like the feature I like the ability to tailor what more of what is shared to the end audience yeah more artifacts more flexibility more data access to the direct more a more data

55:20 direct more a more data accessability for end users end users into the raw sources so yeah I like the I absolutely like the direction awesome well with that I wanted to say thank you all very much for listening to our episode we have been this is our after Christmas episode recorded so thank you very much for spending time with us and not with your family we do appreciate it or maybe maybe this is your family time maybe you want to sit down and around the fire and roast some chestnuts and listen to the explicit measures podcast this could be your new holiday tradition at least it could have been for the last three years

55:51 could have been for the last three years as long as we’ve been doing the podcast so thank you very much for spending quality time with us we really appreciate your ear or hopefully this is like your mental break from the family you’re welcome have fun on the treadmill or on the bike or whatever exercise thing you may be doing we’ve heard we heard a lot of feedback that we exercise with you guys so yeah good job keep up the good work you’re doing great work off those calories the fruit cake from Christmas that being said thank you so much for listening our only recommendation here is we don’t do any advertising please if you found found

56:22 advertising please if you found found this interesting an episode if you have other people exploring organizational share with somebody else we’d love to have other people see and hear the thoughts we’re we’re producing around organizational application Tommy where else can you find the podcast you can find us on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcast make sure to subscribe and leave a rating it helps us out a ton do you have a question an idea or a topic that you want us to talk about in a future episode well head over to powerbi. com

56:58 a. m. Central enjoy the conversation on all of power ba. tips social media channels thank you all so much we really appreciate your time and we’ll see you next time next time [Music]

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