Power BI Best Served HOT – BI Point of View – Ep. 261

A BI request can feel like ordering off-menu at a packed restaurant: the kitchen is already slammed, you need it plated fast, and the spec changes mid-order.

In Ep. 261, Mike, Tommy, and Seth react to a LinkedIn skit that treats data requests like ordering food—and then pull apart why it’s so accurate from the BI team’s perspective. The jokes land because they map to real-world patterns: urgency replacing planning, ‘green’ requirements showing up after delivery, and stakeholders judging the output without seeing the back-of-house work required to validate it.

This is Part 1 of a two-part conversation: today’s episode is the BI / data-team point of view, and the follow-up flips the perspective to the business side.

News & Announcements

• The ‘order data like food’ skit (LinkedIn) — A short parody that nails the ‘I need it now’ dynamic and the expectation gaps that show up in BI/data work.
• Suggest a podcast topic — Submit an idea or question for a future episode.
• PowerBI.tips Podcast — The full Explicit Measures back-catalog, with links to listen on your preferred platform.
• Power BI Theme Generator (Tips+) — Create theme JSON that standardizes colors, fonts, and visual styling across reports.

Main Discussion

The skit is funny because it compresses a bunch of common BI pain into one interaction: a high-pressure ask, unclear requirements, and a mismatch between what someone expects and what the system can prove.

Here are the key takeaways:

• Urgency isn’t a plan: ‘I need it for the board meeting’ might be true, but it doesn’t replace prioritization, sequencing, or tradeoffs.
• Write down the definition: green vs. not-green, which date range, which filters, which business definition—if it isn’t explicit, it will change later.
• Expectations must be negotiated: teams need a shared understanding of what’s possible with the current data, and what requires new pipelines/governance.
• Accuracy has a cost curve: getting close to 100% typically requires more time, more controls, and more investment (especially in regulated contexts).
• Validation work is invisible: stakeholders see a chart; they don’t see lineage checks, reconciliations, and the iteration required to earn trust in the numbers.
• Ad hoc requests can burn adoption: if the final output arrives late (or misses unstated requirements), it’s easy for it to be dismissed as ‘wrong’ and never used.
• This is a people/process problem: better intake, clearer ownership, and ongoing communication matter as much as the tooling.

Looking Forward

Next episode flips the camera to the business perspective—why these requests happen, and how both sides can set expectations without setting the kitchen on fire.

Episode Transcript

0:30 good morning everyone welcome welcome back to the explicit measures podcast with Tommy Seth and Mike good morning good morning gentlemen happy Tuesday it is a Tuesday it’s a great Tuesday oh it is I think so warm today it’s warming up real quick if for those who live in the midwest Northeast Northwest I guess also would count this is this is the best time of year it has to be like 100% yeah yeah like even though I did not know this but in Chicago fall last for like

1:01 this but in Chicago fall last for like eight eight days very also also true very true that might be just a Midwest thing as well but it’s like the best eight days though it’s but it’s the best eight days yeah with the leaves and everything and then it’s gonna be one day of snow it’s over yeah yeah I I don’t disagree with you and it is it’s it it’s sad but there’s got the cycle man it is the most beautiful time of year Bar Bar None

1:34 most beautiful time of year Bar Bar None everywhere you look it just the most amazing colors on the trees and everything just takes a completely different view so 100% agree with it and yeah it’s way too short way way too short but it is still my favorite time of year yeah yeah still worth it still worth it even though it’s eight days still worth it yeah right so I don’t think we have any really intros today but I’ll just quickly introduce the top here and if we have any other intro pieces we can go through those as well today we Tommy found I think

2:05 well today we Tommy found I think Tommy found this one this is a link from someone on a post on LinkedIn that was was absolutely hilarious and this is kind absolutely hilarious and this is the it’s a of the it’s a it’s oh how what’s the guy’s name Tommy I forgot the name Mike eers Mike eers Awesome way of just portraying the the business interaction to it how do you how do he’s in a restaurant so set up the scene here he’s in a restaurant he’s trying to order some food as if he was going to order

2:36 some food as if he was going to order his data from from the it organization or whatever Central bi whatever you want to call it it’s just spoton so the links already in the description I’ll also grab the link here and put it in the chat window so if you haven’t had a chance you’ll go watch this video If you haven’t seen already Light It Up favored it it’s really funny and I think it’s very spot-on and on point hence the name of our episode today which is powerbi best served hot like a dish or plate of

3:06 served hot like a dish or plate of food what I’m really excited about is this for those who are listening audio don’t worry we got to cover two it’s also in the description of the episode in the podcast so you can click the link but what I’m really excited is we’re taking it’s a two-part Series today we’re doing today we’re taking the business intelligence point of view on like why does this hit home maybe we laugh a little too much watching this maybe not we’ve had conversations like this before I don’t know you’re right and then on Thursday we’re gonna take

3:38 and then on Thursday we’re gonna take the business side why does that occur is that the side well the oh we’re we’re flipping it yeah perspec yeah the perspective so and I honestly I love I love the idea what he did because it’s literally the description in this video to your point Mike is how data people or how you to order food the way people ask for for data things yes totally yeah you for for data things yes totally yeah us we love data and food cuz we got know us we love data and food cuz we got Tom Tom on so naturally came to my LinkedIn feed

4:10 on so naturally came to my LinkedIn feed yeah Tommy’s new icon on all his certified reports is a little canoli in the rightand corner little pach logo guy that’s the logo that great change it up Tommy was Tommy was also saying something yesterday about I don’t know something about bread oh the last episode that’s what Tommy’s like I just saw the thumbnail from the last episode yeah I was like roll in powerbi and I had a little I literally put a plate of rolls next to yeah I don’t know which one of us was doing it Seth or or Tommy what I should have as I as I was thinking about it I should have had one of us

4:40 about it I should have had one of us with our expressions with our mouths open and then I should have just shoved a roll in the mouth and so we could be eating roll called me I would have taken that picture right away and Tommy’s like oh Brad I love rolls I’m like only chabata he’s like yes yes it is well this video what was your guys’s take besides it being an instant classic instant classic an instant classic it is it’s going to be right up there with The Christmas Story now I think is that yearly it’s on the cycle

5:12 think is that yearly it’s on the cycle maybe every month yeah so I really liked so let’s get we’ll start with maybe part of the beginning portion of the video so the gentleman sits down it’s all these little like initial there’s so many quips in in the initial part of video gentleman sits down or or Mike I guess sits down hey come here he just literally yells to the it come here and he says don’t be scared beared then he’s immediately when the you can hear the

5:42 immediately when the you can hear the waiter saying well I have other customers and he goes like Oh no they’ll be fine like they they’ll figure it out like come come deal with my data problem first thought that was like yeah everyone thinks they have a fire drill it doesn’t matter right and I think I think what what is going to be interesting about today is this is not a hitpiece on business because we’ll just do the same thing on it what I think we’re doing here is we’re just there are are observations from a data

6:14 observations from a data perspective that that comes from a place where we have systems and processes that have been set up and groups conform around those business processes in order to deliver right so there’s more structure typically on the other side of this which is why something like this is hilarious for people in it or for whatever because this is a very repeated thing you see this a lot and what what what

6:44 you see this a lot and what what what this is is it it directly conflicts with how we operate on a day-to-day basis or it creates problems yeah so so there’ll be a reverse side of this sure but today so in all actuality share this with Michael leers because I would love him to do a reverse video that we can talk about the it do that but yeah either way we we’ll bring it to you but yeah so there’ll be two sides but it’s it’s not I think I just want to say it’s not going after people because an

7:15 it’s not going after people because an organization cannot function with just one or the other correct business people and data people and it people all need to get working seemlessly and I think that’s where the conversation is ultimately going to go today but yes for the moment we’re going to embellish and some of those things that we observe that are brought forth in this video that we we have to chuckle at otherwise we’d lose our minds to your some of us laugh a little too hard right and if I had to like kind too hard right and if I had to like look at this video retrospectively

7:45 of look at this video retrospectively and say okay what is the main theme of this video I probably would point at it’s just a a misconnect in expectations right there’s there’s always there’s potentially what you expect to get done versus what we can actually deliver right in a regional so sometimes this is just missed expectations this maybe another way of phrasing this as well as well as data best served hot so I I agree with you my my first point in here me first right you’re in a you’re in a crowd of other people that have many orders yes probably many in front of you

8:16 orders yes probably many in front of you and it’s like skip the line nope order right here exactly put mine put mine in I I have the most important order oh and by the way I’m going into a meeting with the executives in one hour I gotta get give it to me quick right so like that already sets the stage is like mm this is already this is already fire in all cylinders the request so so I think the funny thing about this is and and it it traverses different business units in different ways but the the initial request typically comes

8:48 initial request typically comes with a heightened sense of urgency or somebody else’s backing so sometimes this is a oh hey I already talked to your boss he said this is your number one yes I’m I’m sorry but like I just need something real quick like hang on hang on just this won’t take much time something to accelerate past which is what he did right yeah I’m gonna go into the board meeting right like yeah exactly the most the board meeting where I talk about most important thing your team your boss you’re talking to your

9:19 team your boss you’re talking to your boss about the data you got that okay yeah are we on the same page good and and I think that that there’s like to me I saw five main like giant themes that were like when I laugh too hard through my teeth like I think yeah I need the best quality yeah he talked about like I need this in 30 minutes and then the lack of respect on oh it’s gonna take 30 minutes oh wait no that’s fine kind minutes oh wait no that’s fine I liked his order initially the order of I liked his order initially the order is like give me something quick here and then the order is like Wu and

9:50 here and then the order is like Wu and sauce and all these things that take like forever to make like very slow very hard to cook things expensive things no less but all all the very fancy things that thought that was just oh that’s hilarious there’s a few Easter eggs in there because I think he said some contradictory things I need a gluten-free milkf free or something like it was like but yeah like the most extravagant thing is like yeah I can’t the most exceptions amount of time yep and then one of the things you kind yep and then one of the things you right through the middle he’s like by of right through the middle he’s like by the way McDonald’s is doing real-time AI

10:19 the way McDonald’s is doing real-time AI oh yeah that was good why aren’t we and it’s like why why is that not available here and it’s like how many times you heard that like well I heard in a newspaper someone’s doing this the AI every every word is AI well you where’s my where’s my side of AI my Genera of AI well even even in even in that that line of thinking right and this is this is something that is going to cycle back and be be a cause of another problem in the interaction which is the the timeline ra theel he’s

10:52 is the the timeline ra theel he’s dictating when that food needs to come out yes rather than ask when it’s going to it it’s just I need the I’m front of the line here’s my order and and it’s going to come out right away right right right away yeah yeah my favorite part was the food comes out and he’s like what is this what is this ially asked for a green which he did not ask in the beginning I’m like if he if he yeah all the requirements changed and I I actually went back in the video to

11:23 I I actually went back in the video to check I’m like did he actually say these things I did the same none of them none of them were said at the beginning I don’t understand this this I don’t I don’t trust it I don’t trust it like I was like this is I’ve heard this before you said you give them the data and or the report and they’re like I don’t trust it I asked for this to be green and then yeah but again these all resonate for anyone who’s been dat is like listen I don’t know what’s wrong with it that’s your job to figure out I just know this is not right right right you tell me where it’s wrong wait a

11:53 you tell me where it’s wrong wait a minute you just said it’s just not right what part is not right all it it just doesn’t look right it just doesn’t look right well just because you expect your numbers to be higher than what they are doesn’t mean they really are this could actually be the real numbers you just don’t have a clue right what’s going on with the numbers so and I I think those those are still really like all of us have dealt with each of these and just like I said hit home yes hard it’s funny I thought I liked it a lot I did well one just the the quality of the video he’s great

12:23 the quality of the video he’s great actor like I think it was made in in the comments too like hey man if you if you don’t like your day job anymore like keep up with these These are this this should go viral if it hasn’t Earth seriously it’s funny so what for you guys re out of all those themes what do you think resonated for you the most the hardest what hit home what hit closest to home I think I think some of the pieces around the funny parts around 100% accurate

12:53 the funny parts around 100% accurate right I’ve always communicated to to anyone when I’m working with them like if you want 100% accurate data be prepared to spend money on it because it’s it’s like this it’s like a curve you can never really achieve or you can get really really close to 100% accurate data but you’re going to spend more and more money to be able to make that data as accurate as problem as possible and that that for me was just one of those parts because it’s true this is why when you work with banks it’s expensive to work with banks and they take a lot of money from you

13:23 they take a lot of money from you because they’re trying to make sure they don’t lose any dollar or cents they got to be like spoton they can’t be off like oh Tommy sorry we we lost $100 in your bank account just rounding errors it was it was just a Miss on our part you you’re be like no you can’t have that it’s got to be like how works it’s got to be exactly right all the time and audited and all this kind other stuff that costs money 100% accurate is is an expensive way to handle and manage data Tommy or Seth anything that you resonate with in this one

13:54 resonate with in this one it’s it’s hard to pick one thing in it right and I think we’re it it just compounds the the hilarity like where okay this is funny oh my gosh this is really really funny and I I start losing it is is the fact that throughout this thing it it outlines the one of the largest problems between typically between these groups of business and it or business and data right business we we already know it’s already under tight

14:25 we already know it’s already under tight time pressures but it the what what happens is right out of the gate it’s complicated right it’s a complicated order it I high demands complication it’s a one-way conversation right there there’s no asking of anything it’s just I here’s what I want you go do it oh yeah by the way you have to give it to me right away there’s threats related to we’re going to lose X our competitor is going to beat us in X it like and then and then the first delivery of

14:57 then and then the first delivery of something is isn’t what is expected because there was no there was no communication it was just demanding of something and what it like where where I think we’ll get into some positive things related to like how do we how do we stop this the the vast majority of the time there are not nearly enough requirements the vast majority of time it is a generic request the vast majority of time there are they you’re Flying Blind trying to iterate and deliver something and ultimately you

15:27 deliver something and ultimately you typically sometimes h hit a timeline where sometimes your stuff isn’t even used right or it’s only partially and that’s for like a lot of the ad hoc that comes quite a bit and I think maybe this is why it resonates with us because there is a lot of ad hoc requests whereas it it started to touch touch on the longer term projects related to like budget right where we’re I can’t pay you for that well then there was a misalignment from the beginning around

15:59 misalignment from the beginning around what you expected to get for the dollars you were going to spend and because we didn’t have that communication or you just automatically demanded what you wanted without looking at pricing or whatever we’re in this spot because you put us here now it’s not a blame game but where this ends is like this mentality of I will keep you guys going when I actually get to the board meeting I know like nobody sees you anyway I’ll

16:30 I know like nobody sees you anyway I’ll I’ll let them know how you’re delivering and and that one I could talk about for 10 more bits but but like that that is that is also true right the business runs in the business Realms and unless you’re an actively engaged data and it team communicating regularly with business owners they will have no idea what you do so it’s like it’s like the back of the house right so if he’s in this area he’s causing a stink this order is all messed up it’s wrong

17:01 this order is all messed up it’s wrong blah blah BL blah but nobody hears the correspondence with the waiter and nobody understands what they did in the back to get out what he demanded in the timeline that he wanted right so in that case it’s very easy to be as he’s walking out the door to the other patrons this place is horrible can’t even get they can’t even get my order right they overcharged me right like there’s a narrative here that is phenomenal hilarious because it’s true like our our experiences speak to a lot

17:34 like our our experiences speak to a lot of this happening across things and what it what I think it speaks to is the breakdowns of of those business groups not working together well which is hard it’s a people problem yeah and I’ve seen I feel like I’ve seen I not feel I know I’ve had these situations in all levels that I’ve been in as the lowly data analyst as the Director of bi it’s a little different as now no and and also seeing where there’s very low adoption I think to me that’s where they come back to because there’s you an excellent

18:05 to because there’s you an excellent point SE on there is a lack of understanding on what the business intelligence team does the effort involved and the the resources required that usually leads to that my My First Data illness job I remember there’d be a lot of Thursdays they’re like oh we have a literally like we have a board meeting tomorrow do you have this like no it’s like why don’t you have this like it’s never been asked and then it was one of those late nights but I think all the things that Mike talked about in the

18:35 things that Mike talked about in the video in the comedy Parts was a lack of adoption because there’s a lack of understanding what data does how it actually gets cultivated and how it actually gets finally formed where it’s like no just go to your resource and supplier and tell them you’re not going to pay this or exactly yeah but all those ideas because it’s in a in in so many words there’s no idea in in a really bad data culture there’s no idea how the sausage gets made and the effort involved with governance with process

19:05 involved with governance with process it’s like well no your data person it’s a bar chart how hard is that yeah and I think I think you you speak to the flip reaction side of things where I think there was some comments related to his video that he took really well too where oh oh there are there are ways past this we shouldn’t we shouldn’t be pointing these things out but the the the rebuttal to that is that the

19:36 the the the rebuttal to that is that the business would have to understand that there are development efforts in here and when we’re talking about data no you can’t just whip things out the door because if you misrepresent something to somebody they’re they’re going to look at your report and they’re going to blame you for it not being right like there are checks and we talk about these checks and balances all the time but what is the number one thing when we do all that that is unacceptable to the

20:09 business time the time to do that I was gonna say time right so immediately if you’re demanding if you’re demanding and putting me on a timeline yeah Tommy to your point right like have no clue what it takes to actually pull some some numbers together don’t understand the Nuance between hey hey oh what yeah here I can give you that number in 15 minutes versus my God man that’s going to take me three days it speaks to

20:36 going to take me three days it speaks to I think the a a low data culture right but that’s also one of the things where the as you progress and build these processes and interactions and architectures of how a business should operate or like giving them the data where they need it how they need it Etc people people start to raise their awareness and you’re bringing that group along for the ride or groups right into a world where they can be much more successful if they

21:08 can be much more successful if they understand some of these data things themselves but it’s the same thing as our our overgeneralization of other groups and I’m not even going to get into some spectrums but they’re all over the place and that’s where I didn’t want this conversation to go because it’s like it’s very easy to oversimplify another area of business yeah right and I’m guilty of this to some degree too right like oh sales oh how hard is that right like oh marketing you have no idea what these people are doing on a daily basis and how difficult their

21:39 on a daily basis and how difficult their job is unless you go step in their shoes and try to do their job for a day right so in the same way it’s a great over generalization we’re it in data they’re the blockers to everything why because it takes them forever to do anything well what are you requesting right like so there’s why the five wise of this would get down to the nuts and bolts of either we have a unique case where a customer is very upset or like whatever the ca a unique case

22:11 or like whatever the ca a unique case that actually merits a fire drill versus maybe a lack of planning there’s another interesting part your emergency does not require a fire drill on my part like so I know that things are burning down over there but how long did this executive meeting was coming right you don’t have the stop gaps in place to Val to innocence pack that I think there’s a lot of bi analysts who are Department facing because Seth you’re saying something very interesting where it’s it and bi well that’s if bi is under that umbrella

22:42 well that’s if bi is under that umbrella and a lot of a lot of TR though there’s a lot of data analyst who are dedicated on a department I think that’s the I don’t want to say it’s the worst spot to be in but without the right necessary stop gaps in process you’re dealing with someone now who’s in like that mesh in between the data where I have control all the data or access and the department with expectations I might have told the story before it was a few years ago but one of my colleagues and this no exaggeration here I come in on Tuesday

23:13 exaggeration here I come in on Tuesday morning and one of my colleagues a data analyst on the sales team he’s there red eyes I’m like what what are you doing he’s like I’ve been here all night I’m building an SSRS report I’m like why he’s like because we had powerbi we just adopted he’s like well they want an RS report he didn’t as a no Sequel and they’re like well you can build this you’re the data person so by Friday can you build this SSRS report he’s like no he’s like well it should be easier to figure out and they left them with that and that’s obviously an extreme case but

23:44 and that’s obviously an extreme case but I think there’s a point there where when you’re at the mesh when you’re in the middle of the business or a department that doesn’t have the necessary like Hub and spoke approach or manage self-service approach there is a lot of cause for concern because again it’s the people process technology the process part here is where that’s failing I wondered too if this will also occur when we’re dealing with fabric now where now this is also also on the Forefront welcome welcome to another

24:15 Forefront welcome welcome to another whole menu of things you can now add to this right right so to me this is this is what I’ve been taught in here ever since fabric came out love it fabric is great it adds so much capability to the business I can every client I walk into I’m like oh this could add some value here oh we could just do this little thing over here and and I love it it’s a great it’s a great tool it’s really bringing a lot of the the growup story that we need to powerbi however now I’ve just doubled the menu I’ve doubled what needs to happen like where where do where do we

24:46 happen like where where do where do we draw the lines who is going to organize all this stuff yeah I I that resonates very much with me Tommy like with when you add in fabric as well and actually in in the class that I run a lot of people are asking questions how do you now govern Fabric in addition to everything else yeah how is this going to change how we build our ecosystem and this is these are really good concerns and questions that people especially leadership in the bi Department should be thinking about having those candid conversations what does this mean to my business there’s G to be some Joe Schmo telling some bi like hey just do The Medallion approach I read about

25:17 do The Medallion approach I read about that that should be easy now that you have Fabric and then they walk off like what why you what is going on here well I liked I lik the the part in the video where he was like just just pull my steak from the kitchen like pull pull it from the kitchen like quick like just do it quickly just pull it from the kitchen I’m like pull it yeah just like oh yes the exact question you were looking to answer has already been developed in the kitchen we just have a whole bunch of food lined up ready to serve you immediately out of the out of the kitchen this takes time to prepare like right again this is

25:48 time to prepare like right again this is where I was like this there’s just another disconnect in conversation and or another disconnect around you expectations again I keep going back to a a lot of this just feels like expectation management and a lot of expectation understanding of like what can you can you produce so we keep hammering on the expectations so I feel like this needs to be asked and I don’t know there’s not a definite answer but can we at least assign or try to assign fault here or at least assign where ises the origin of this this this

26:19 where ises the origin of this this this no we keep hammering on this idea of expectation well it’s a lack of expectations it’s a lack of aligned expectation there has to be some or that this commonly appears we’ve heard about this in our user groups this was part why we started the podcast because these are all the great areas conversations around that that we’re like oh wow we’re not I’m not alone with these misaligned expectations if you were actually take leadership or the department or the people or the technology could we in a sense I don’t want to say assign blame

26:51 sense I don’t want to say assign blame but see where maybe this normally does occur the misaligned expectations is that possible where does it normally occur I think it really well I occur I think it really well there’s a couple challenges I think mean there’s a couple challenges I think that are that we Face here one is are we actually providing what we feel like is the best way to serve data to the business units and again what I’ll point out here is PBI has made data a commodity to some degree right there has always been this I think up until this point in my opinion here is there’s always been this a little bit of a technology barrier between people

27:21 technology barrier between people shaping building cubes of data and things before powerbi came out a lot of the visualization programs out there didn’t handle data engineering they just didn’t do it so there’s a lot of barrier to entry where you knew you had to go get skilled people to go develop these things what we saw I think with the trend moving with data is the central it or the central bi Department was just trying to say well how about we just give you more access to data further Upstream right hey business you’re

27:52 Upstream right hey business you’re asking for things very quickly we can’t meet your needs quickly enough Let’s help you deliver things let’s build you a cube or a warehouse or a business objects thing and here you go pick the fields you want to drag onto a table and so what wound up happening was we have a bunch of users building lots of tables to export the data and get it out to excel to do the analysis they want to do but then some of the complaints go away right because now they at least have the data or they they can get their hands on it I think this is the same thing with powerbi parbi came in it made it very

28:23 parbi came in it made it very easy for you to build your own data objects things value from them and so by commoditizing the ability to make an engineer data to the broad part of the organization now there’s this well I could just pull three sources of data together and just Stitch it together bing bing bing done I’m done like why is it so hard from you large Enterprise why is 1, 000 records vers versus 10 million records so much more difficult to work with why don’t we have the tools to support this and I think there’s this the idea of the the data space is ever

28:54 the idea of the the data space is ever evolving and it’s unless you’ve got your Team marching the same direction I think we also we don’t we underestimate how long it would take to build something or how long it takes to get the data or how long it takes to load things there’s there’s some expectations there that when you look at it from a team that has gone through this process and been burned multiple times or has built something and it didn’t work or they tried to get requirements but no one’s

29:24 get requirements but no one’s articulated them well it’s very hard to get good requirements out of a team to know exactly what you’re trying to deliver for these things so having a process around that really helped I think improve that communication between the two the two groups I don’t know if that answered your question Tommy that just my thoughts around what what you were saying there I think my responses are aligned with Mike’s I don’t asking whose fault is it there’s a is is going there’s it’s a nuanced answer yes in

29:54 there’s it’s a nuanced answer yes in every organization and I think what you’re asking in a different way is what is the value of a data culture what’s what’s the because the Crux of a problem related to an organization having failings between departments and not being able to deliver because it is that’s what we’re talking about like there’s going to be conflict between a group of individuals that are saying I I have these needs and they’re legitimate right so in this video it’s funny and it’s humorous but there are legitimate

30:24 it’s humorous but there are legitimate needs that business people have whether that’s in Marketing sales engineering whatever the case may be sure they’re different purposes different different needs I I think it drives into like what area of the organization are you struggling with that probably require thoughtful planning to enhance and build like ultimately to to ask a question back to your question why is the data team the blocker if we have all

30:55 the data team the blocker if we have all these tools and Technologies if we have all these avenues for business to generate reporting why aren’t they why aren’t they generating their own reporting well then that leads to a different question do do they know how to use it have they been taught like are there are there do they have access to the data and if if they have access to the data and they just don’t know how to use the reporting tools maybe it’s a training training thing I I always think about solving problems related to like

31:25 about solving problems related to like situations like this of have I said yes to all of those things and it’s just a person problem because if I haven’t then something is deficient and my expectations are not in the right place oh that’s a good point so even even as I and I think I think it was either called out in comments or or you guys said it it technically or even data we get into this really gnarly bad habit of just taking requests right and we talk a lot about

31:57 requests right and we talk a lot about like what is the process that we want to engage in in the business we have to ask these questions we have to sus out what we need and and unfortunately a lot of those push back and driving for more questions and driving for more things result in the business person not knowing and that’s why I like justest a little bit around planning or depending on where the request is coming from there’s lots of Demands but when you drive into the actual needs there a lot of thought and

32:29 actual needs there a lot of thought and all like that’s a failing I would say the business person should have a very clear understanding that if they’re requesting help which is what they’re doing they should fully understand the problem and maybe there’s this is where there’s just a like open a kimono moment right in in many in many organizations if you if your data team is even remotely connected to it and this is why I say even if you’re not you should build your own team processes because when you have that flow the

33:02 because when you have that flow the business knows how to interact with you and there’s this touch Point that’s it driven where you’re refining requirements you’re going through thought exercises of challenging pushing back filling out story stories with all the information so that the dev ke team can execute against the things that are laid out in that story there are use case is there like and this is the verbose thing and data plays in the middle but that

33:32 data plays in the middle but that structure is why we talk about think like the business act like it because there’s this mix of these processes that both teams need to understand so that they work well together but the data team like you’re running and you’re building something off of it can’t just be in off of like this document there has to be engagement back and forth and I think if I’m going to push into one area where I think I would make a recommendation for business users is don’t look at a request for

34:05 users is don’t look at a request for data for reporting as a oneoff and then somebody’s going to deliver something to you one of the most frustrating things from a data it side is if you’re requesting something and demanding my time and frontloading it and making it a priority and we engage RIS be be very responsive one of one of the biggest challenges I’ve encountered over my entire career has been requests we get engaged and we’re

34:37 been requests we get engaged and we’re stuck because this is the top priority that was shelving everything and we don’t get responses from anybody for hours or potentially even days right so if there’s there’s going to be clarifying questions there’s going to be a lot of back and forth that happens between between engaged person and the thing to deliver and we don’t know we’re not the subject matter experts more often than not so when that requests come through the the

35:08 when that requests come through the the responsibilities of a business person should be to be there monitoring giving quick answers whenever possible and then you’re G to get your thing faster so I think it’s like a lot of that you’re you’re killing me with your wisdom here because you’re heading home in a few areas where I initially wanted to say there’s a lot of leadership not at fault but origin here but honestly when you really think about it the bi in its current form is still incredibly new to

35:38 incredibly new to businesses the way the where it actually lands if I wanted to start a sales department there’s a thousand books on the prag pragmatic approach if I want to start a marketing department there’s a thousand books and resources on that approach but if I wanted to start a bi team or a department well there’s still a lot lot of non-definite answers on where does it live what is the value of the report what what is the what is my team look like and that is not we’re not nearly at a point yet

36:09 not we’re not nearly at a point yet where that’s a mature Place universally speaking and I think that’s a huge part of this where well really what is the bi department where does it live those questions where if you don’t have that set up properly in a mature bi team with the resources on hey what type of requests can we take how do we vet those requests how do we work with the Department because it’s probably started off Mike you said you’ve been saying this a few times as a commodity based so

36:41 this a few times as a commodity based so people are expecting a commodity what’s a commodity it’s quick it’s fast it’s a bar chart done it’s easy it’s easy to pump these things out like’s get the value out here quickly boom boom boom right it’s that it’s that commodity expectation on top of things and I think what we’re saying some degree is it’s not always a commodity there’s not it’s not easy to just automatically generate everything out well just add this little button here oh yeah just add it’s added tabbing in your report now and I want to see six different visuals with eight different tabs on one page of the report you realize like we can do it but that’s that’s a lot of investment of time to

37:12 that’s a lot of investment of time to build it the right way so that it looks good and it functions right and we maintain it well like I keep seeing reports getting with more and more requirements on them the report gets bloated bloated bloated bloated and they’re like why does this change take like 3 days because you added so many things to it and now we’re having to go through and just spot check all this what you don’t want is you don’t want the report going out with wrong data or missing bookmarks or things that just don’t work I think even farther than even more than that the purpose of the business intelligence team I think a lot of people would say they build reports

37:43 of people would say they build reports and if that is what your business and your department are saying you are far off from being in the right place from a data culture yes our output the manifestation is a report but if that’s what you think think the bi team’s function is we are well off the mark on expectations we are well off the mark on the bi team being mature enough to deliver the value that it should because yeah I can deliver efficiently a report faster than I ever could before that doesn’t mean I should that shouldn’t be my major function right like and this

38:15 my major function right like and this goes back to a convers I’ve been pushing on this podcast since the beginning on the bit needs to step up on being more of a leadership role rather than just the request role my job is not to give you internet access and to get let you download a certain software I want to play a bigger part on the questions that you’re asking I want to play a bigger part in helping you develop your right metrics the last part of the the video that Mike Evers did that to me was the largest point was

38:45 that to me was the largest point was this is not what I thought it was going to look like well and I always go back to whose fault was that like if we’re not playing a part on hey you want to report but what are you trying to get out of this can we help you develop your metrics can we help you develop what you’re trying to measure right then I I I I always think the bi team’s going to be playing from behind you be playing from behind I I like your points there Tommy know I I like your points there Tommy though I would argue that there are there is many different ways to run a company and I’m not going to be the one to come in and say there’s there’s one right way to run your

39:16 there’s one right way to run your business there’s many different Dynamics occurring there’s lots of different personalities there’s a lot of political games that are being played inside a business who pays for what and and how things get ruled out out so I’m not going to be so naive and just say there’s only one right way to have everything communicated report should never be a commodity we should never have a ticketing system and just whip out tickets and get things done for people I’m I don’t think I think there’s a lot of things that depend on the type of company and the culture that you’ve been grooming in your organization and I think a lot of companies haven’t really sat down and

39:47 companies haven’t really sat down and made that internal reflective look at themselves and say what data culture what culture do we want to have and a lot of this stuff just organically grows over time and you you turn into an organization that well many of our users just can’t handle a lot of heavy data things so we’re just going to have a central team that does it because we found a couple people in the business who understand what’s going on with the data we’re just going to lean on them all the time so instead of actually working with the company to educate multiple individuals

40:18 company to educate multiple individuals or skill up or work on the data culture as we we’re not going to give you full reports we’re going to give you access to deeper data further Upstream it’s up to you Mr user to build your own things when you need centralized things or centralized reporting now we we engage that bi team and this is where I think it makes a lot of sense where I hear inside the adoption road map right so this is where the adoption Road I think makes a lot of really good points

40:48 think makes a lot of really good points here because it’s a lot of as you look at your organization and compare yourself to other organizations I don’t think a lot of companies are always are doing that enough and and saying okay where do we sit as far as governance where do we sit as far as skills and capability where do we sit like what level are we are we at 100 are we a 300 where do we want to be what processes do we have that we can follow versus maybe we have a bunch of

41:13 versus maybe we have a bunch of processes we’re not following them right so what what does that look like from a leadership standpoint inside your your data culture and then someone’s going to take the helm and say this is what we’re going to do no we’re we’re not going to let the excuse of well I’m too busy I can’t learn something new I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve heard that well I’m just too busy I don’t have I don’t have enough time to learn something else and I was just recently teaching a class where I was very much reiterating like look if you want to better your career if you want to better how you add value to your

41:44 how you add value to your organization self-development is part of that process this technology world is changing way too fast for you to say I don’t have time to learn new things it’s just not possible you’re going to have to invest your time into improving what because if you don’t someone else will and they’re going to take your job or eat your meal or take your steak from the kitchen because they’re they’re going to know the tools they’re going to know how to work faster they’re going to they’re going to add that value the

42:14 they’re going to add that value the people that I find that invest time on themselves learning these tools learning how to use them well they do what they get promoted they move on to other jobs they outgrow companies they move into companies that are more challenging or harder things to do because that because they’re investing in themselves so I just feel like that’s something a culture thing that comes down from the top that we want to encourage yeah I think you covered a multiple different points the one I no I it’s good and I agree with a lot of them but I think it’s more strategy focused

42:45 but I think it’s more strategy focused like how do you climb your way out of these things right so the one answer is without strategy you’re not going to climb anywhere Tommy right like if you don’t look at your business intelligence team and like where you were at how do you change the way people View and abuse or use that team and you don’t like it then someone needs to flip the script or move towards something that is going to provide some buffer to your domain

43:17 provide some buffer to your domain because what I hate hearing what I really hate hearing is where you were at were at where the the individual or team is put in a position where the only the only way for the business to succeed is for you to work 90 hours a week right like that that isn’t succeeding as a business that’s burning out the key resources you need to deliver something right yeah

43:47 need to deliver something right yeah 100% And just in the same way that all the people requesting the time are not working that hard nor should they have the expectation that you do but how do they know that right and that is something that self-reflection in a person or a team I think is warranted you can go back and we have a podcast all about building a process for your team and some of the the building blocks for that and you do that so that you buy you get your life back to some degree right so but like the other parts I’m

44:18 right so but like the other parts I’m going to make and they’re more more falling into the recency bias Matthew roach has a great video series on data culture and adoption that I I’ve been going through and a lot of the points that we’re making throughout here resonate with a lot of the things he says or ideas he conveys about the complexities of of what it means to to build a data culture and that evaluation that Mike talked about like an organization needs to

44:48 about like an organization needs to evaluate where you sit in the spectrum of your data culture right and a lot of them are in step one or two across the board it’s like people process Technologies like do people have what they need so a lot of those questions I was asking are all go along the spectrum of like where would you need to focus your your time first to elevate the organization to the point where you’re teams wouldn’t do that to a bi team because they recognize and understand that like

45:20 recognize and understand that like there’s a process you follow here’s how you do I need to do my due diligence I’ve got to put this in a week ahead of time etc etc it’s changing how people operate with each other in the organization but Mike where you were talking about I think is the the difference between finding like the easy path which is finding that executive sponsor who recognizes that these are the problems and dictat do something about it right dictates that company time and resources are going to

45:52 company time and resources are going to be like provisioned to solve these problems problems and then also tells other areas of the business that this is not how we operate with these teams this is how we need to and whether that’s coming through Finance or it I think it’s easier to have structure around that team in the it realm but I would also argue it’s this regardless of if you’re in finance which is typically where I’ve seen other data teams the structure still needs to be the same the process still needs to be the same yes versus Tommy where I

46:22 to be the same yes versus Tommy where I think your thoughts were which is the bottomup approach M the B you you obviously recognize that there is a problem because you’re working 12 hour days or 14-hour days or somebody’s pulling all nighters all the time am I saying that there isn’t occasionally an area where like hey man but button on hatches like we all need to like Barrel in and get this done no I’m not but it shouldn’t be the norm by any stretch of the imagination the challenge with that though is you’re going to hit a threshold somebody has to agree with you

46:54 threshold somebody has to agree with you that this is a problem and it needs to be solved and that’s where having that executive sponsor versus your team pushing that agenda like hopefully that converts somebody into an executive sponsor but if you hit that road map or or that that ceiling don’t expect things are going to change right and I think overall like that’s where you saying Your Your Role Your Role shouldn’t just be to execute well it depends on where you’re at like where maybe your expectations

47:26 at like where maybe your expectations are out of line because if you have no executive sponsor nobody above you is telling you you have a problem maybe the problem problem is everything and you’re you’re a thousand per right it’s I I was I wrote it down and I was going to mention it too but this really does start with the executive sponsor much less than what department of bi team’s in because that executive sponsor to your point is going to outline or need to outline what the success look like for the bi team

47:57 the success look like for the bi team what’s the objective again the primary function of the business intelligence team or resources at our organization which then will Define what would success look like and then we know we need to figure out how do we get there and I think but that starts it starts with the executive sponsor realizing the need to say what’s our success criteria for business intelligence was that primary function then someone like to your point Mike someone who’s been investing time a champion come in like okay let’s outline that strategy let’s

48:28 okay let’s outline that strategy let’s look at the adoption road map but how do we know we’re getting there and that’s really critical to that point but it starts with a someone who’s investing from a leadership position on understanding what is the primary function for business intelligence yeah across the board this is this is I think what organizations have to Grapple with is figure out Define that for themselves yeah I think many different companies will Define is slightly different I think in general we could we can directionally say like you

48:59 could we can directionally say like you could we can directionally say like high level we can probably know high level we can probably put a a label on what this looks like but when you look at different companies I think each company is going to try and find their own unique way of leveraging this and I think some companies treat their data more like an asset I think some companies treat their data more like a commodity and I think depending on how that culture aligns you can you can see how that plays out in what work people do and I think what you’ll find is you’ll find if if you treat dat like a commodity and you’re not really grooming it and

49:31 you’re not really grooming it and working on it and trying to build culture around it the people that are really good are going to find ah I’m just I’m done with this I’m G to go find someplace else that that treates that a different data culture the only concerning thing that I have was something you mentioned Mike is you’re saying like oh the well it’s the people who are re investing in themselves I’m like can you really expect that from each person in the organization like because if that’s the standard or the norm like if that’s the Baseline we’re I we’re you’re being like you’re going to

50:01 we’re you’re being like you’re going to user groups you’re doing training you’re signing up for training that’s what other departments behave like that like you departments behave like that like what like like if you’re in know what like like if you’re in graphic design if you’re in marketing if you’re in sales if you’re in operations that and again like I I’m biased I think that we we have the best job because we’re on the Forefront of technology and the people but so it takes a lot more resources but again it’s come from a bias point of view but that’s a hard that’s a very high level expectation to say everyone in my team or every

50:32 say everyone in my team or every business is going to have this go-getter in a business intelligence setting so I don’t think I think you’re overemphasizing my point there I think the point is everyone at some level has to start leveling up now certain individuals are going to become your a number one players right like bring it bring it to Tom something Tommy loves and and holds dear you have a baseball team team right everyone is going to be self-improving on the baseball team to get better hopefully right and the teams not every person on the teams are

51:03 not every person on the teams are Rockstar right you have you have a couple players that are that can really make a game play right so every team and liking it it’s very similar to what you’re do in bi and I was actually going to a I want to say Simon syck but that’s the wrong name but Malcolm Gladwell was talking about a phrase about strong link and weak links so different sports are strong link games versus weak links right so a weak link

51:32 versus weak links right so a weak link game would be something like soccer right if any one player passes the ball and the pass doesn’t complete and you you lose control of the ball that’s a that’s a weak link any one player who’s the weakest brings the whole team down in the opposite end right you have basketball you have like the Bulls right there’s one or two star players and everyone else is kind fills in around a little bit and so that’s a strong link game so if you if you link yourself to that strong player the whole

52:02 yourself to that strong player the whole thing succeeds now I don’t really know how strong links or weak links would work out in your bi department but I I feel like it’s more of a strong link type of thing where if you have a couple strong players the whole thing doesn’t fall apart but having a couple experts on your team can really save you a bunch of headache along the way and this is one of the reasons why when organizations real realize or organizations need to realize they need a little bit of guidance initially to find that individual internally and

52:33 find that individual internally and potentially talk with someone externally who’s already done what they’re trying to do this is why I think this whole Consulting around powerbi and data thing is really hot right now because a lot of organizations are finding we have a lot of players on our team we don’t have a strong Allstar yet we’ve got to bring in someone to come in and help either bring the allstar to the team or we’ve got to train up someone internally to become the allstar and so I I agree with your statement Tommy like yes we should really encourage people

53:03 people to self-drive and self-learn but we can’t expect everyone on the team to play like a rockstar all the time there’s there’s going to be a couple individuals that I think are going to play Above U throw above their weight essentially and be able to play at that other level that that higher level so I don’t know it really interesting concept there yeah well I think it alludes to the fact that where where the challenges of business intelligence or data within an organization have been have have changed

53:33 organization have been have have changed now right it’s very easy and we’ll we’ll probably do the the whole thing on on the business ver view of it but it like many organizations still are in the realm of it controls everything right and it is the blocker and what Mike you’re you’re presenting here is a different challenge which is well if you have the data available to you if you have these report reporting tools who’s really the problem is it the business because you don’t have an individual that is stepping up to like raise the

54:04 that is stepping up to like raise the game raise the but I think it’s not really a blame thing it’s like there’s an opportunity that did not exist before that’s my point for a business person yes and if you wanted to elevate your career out of business into business intelligence and data which is a multifaceted area because it can go it or business you’re growing skill sets that will enhance the value you have to an organization 100% Yep this whole SQL Server thing wasn’t a flash in the pan

54:34 Server thing wasn’t a flash in the pan it didn’t like they didn’t like release it and like oh wow great and then three years later it’s gone out of here right I think I think this is the next Excel has been around for 30 plus years I remember talking with some family members about me moving into the powerbi space and going very heavily into the technical space around powerbi as I continue diving diving deeper into this direction everyone’s like well what what happens if it like Fizzles out what if what happens if Microsoft decides that they’re not going to do it anymore they

55:04 they’re not going to do it anymore they kill like the product goes bad people don’t it gets moved it gets demoted or whatever and I said one I said I leaned on some of my experience like I’m looking at the business intelligence tools that have been done previously how do we get data things to happen well there were SQL Server there was analysis Services these are things that are very successful and had a multi-year run on them I don’t need powerbi to be a tool that lasts for 100 years I just need it to last for like the length of the rest of my career like can you just make it

55:35 of my career like can you just make it run another 20 years or 10 years like and then I look at Excel going well excel’s been around for what 30 plus years well if if Excel can do it why why not SQL why not powerbi I like okay it’s a little more comfortable now like I I can probably invest here because I think it’s going to be around a little bit longer well the question’s already been answered it’s already already done with fabric when you think about it where I no I’m being slightly dramatic but think about it look at our logo look at Microsoft’s

56:05 it look at our logo look at Microsoft’s logo look at the now powerbi service in general we are rapidly we’re always going to be rapidly changing and to your point Mike yeah for anyone learning or for myself and like what I really just I tell my wife this all time like I love what I do and it’s because not just the tooling and the technology of the people but my job is to stay on the Forefront of all this and that is so fun because it’s all always changing it’s always rapidly changing and I think that goes to the technology piece but I

56:35 that goes to the technology piece but I think the the last thing I’ll say here is I really think that as the technology changes the the successful person the successful department or the successful organization is always aligned with where the technology is what it’s capable of and what is the objective and the culture and where do we want to go and how does that look and I think having those two aligned is going to be the success of bi because we’re not a department like sales or marketing where well the only thing we’ve changed is we

57:05 well the only thing we’ve changed is we don’t do Billboards we do advertising online now or sales where there’s always a rep there’s always a manager we’re always going to be adapting where I don’t know if we all ever be in a mature State because we’re so dependent on the technology but still being aligned with technology and what is success look like for bi is what going to make bi successful yeah I guess my closing thoughts are like this this conversation and the future one are about the importance of teams working well together and and as we do that

57:37 well together and and as we do that coming together with empathy right trying to understand what it is the complexity of their their roles are what they’re doing defining a process and communicating it not just to each other but to The Wider organization helps everybody and folk for those that that just hear it as a a bud buzzword I’d say focus on what data culture is and plug into that concept to to some degree to understand where you’re at where you can maybe help and push your organization because ultimately the goals and objectives that you’re going

58:07 goals and objectives that you’re going to start to Define in that process are the strategies and directions that you you need to start conveying to The Wider organization or that will be conveyed and you’re going to be dedicating time to solving some of those long-term problems which ultimately alleviate a lot of a shortterm thrash and it’s a lot of this very short-term things that I think resonate in conversations like this but ultimately if you’re juggling both those things in your work streams or you’re part of that

58:38 work streams or you’re part of that you’re in a great place if you’re not then you’re probably stuck in one of these areas that you don’t want to be because I don’t think I I don’t think I’ve met anybody who’s just dedicating their time to to long-term strategy things you it’s it’s a balance and and again I think I want to lean on here is this is going to change is going to be EB and flow per company the culture will will change I do think a lot of this starts the top this is a funny clip I really like it so Mike thank you very much for a very funny clip on a lot of interesting topics your take on how

59:08 interesting topics your take on how this rolls out and how you see the interaction between different departments in an organization like yeah it’s it’s it’s definitely a real thing and I think this is a good conversation to have I think becoming real with these are candid conversations that we should be thinking through and and talking through as a business will just help us have better understanding of what the other department is looking for right how can how can we adjust our actions so that we can meet everyone’s goals or needs with their their datas with that I want to say thank you

59:38 datas with that I want to say thank you all very much for your time this has been a great episode the video is extremely funny so definitely check it out in the comments it’ll be on the comments or the the description on the YouTube videos and Linkedin also on the podcast episode as well so you can click the link there go watch the video on LinkedIn super funny give Mike a big thumbs up for the comical video there it was awesome very very much enjoyed it Tommy where else can you find the podcast you can find us on Apple Spotify or wherever get your podcast make sure to subscribe and leave a rating it helps us out a ton do you have

60:09 rating it helps us out a ton do you have a question an idea or a topic that you want us to talk about in a future episode head over to powerbi tips podcast leave your name and a great question finally join us live every Tuesday and Thursday a. m. Central and join the conversation on all powerb tip social media channels Mike I’ll give you a shout out we loved your video but the challenge is on now you’ve got to flip the rolls we we need another video that reverses things so you were you were looking at it from the business towards it we need a lens from the it

60:39 towards it we need a lens from the it towards the business now so get ready Mike you got to you got to up amp it up here and add another video we need we need another good video so we’ll have to start taking U scripting or maybe actor maybe we have actors Guild here to give figure out who who who should play the next role here and what what should the next scene be right he’s in a restaurant ordering things is it in a restaurant somewhere else maybe it’s in the kitchen maybe it’s in the kitchen maybe the kit maybe the next video

61:09 maybe the kit maybe the next video should be the chef’s in the kitchen talking about things so this is this is idea gold here for you for free there you go that was your freebie right there thank you all very much and we’ll see you next

61:49 [Music] out

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